Takedowns

[JamesB]

can you put on some no gi takedowns, cheers

[Hadaka Jime]

are you looking for a more wrestling backround take down in single leg, double leg or are you wanting more jiu jitsu/judo take downs that don't involve the gi?

[Andy]

Personally I'd like to see jiu jitsu/judo. Single leg take down is sometimes just too hard go get, since you have to have posture and all to keep them off balance, otherwise you'd just get stuffed.

[OutwardRooted]

I'm more into Judo takedowns. More skill involved in those in my opinion. Anyone can dive in, grab a leg, and hope for the best. But to pull off a good uke waza or hani goshi, you gotta know what you're doing and how to set it up. And if you nail it, it's so much sweeter. Plus, with leg take downs, if you accidently shoot your head outside of the body, you can get choked real easy.

[Ryan]

I'm more into Judo takedowns. More skill involved in those in my opinion. Anyone can dive in, grab a leg, and hope for the best. But to pull off a good uke waza or hani goshi, you gotta know what you're doing and how to set it up. And if you nail it, it's so much sweeter. Plus, with leg take downs, if you accidently shoot your head outside of the body, you can get choked real easy.

Thats kind of ignorant. Seriously, have you ever wrestled? You must have never shot an ankle pick, a heel to heel trip or a firemans carry that leaves your opponent flipping over you wondering how they got there.

There is so much skill involved in wrestling. You have to set up your shots, level changes, distractions and timing. When you shoot in you have to make sure your not leaning back too far or you will get shoved backwards, you have to make sure your not leaning forwards too much as you will get sprawled on and while stepping in for a shot you have to make sure your close enough to get your foot in between their legs in a double leg.

Yes, Judo takedowns are sweet and they take skill but we are not here to put down 1 art over another. See, most people here are not just all about BJJ, JJJ or GJJ. We like wrestling, judo, aikido and Kempo. I am wanting to study Jeet Kune Do and learn about Bruce Lee. I love Muay Thai, kickboxing and other arts seen on "The Human Weapon" like Krav Maga.

[Spidaman]

Haha was gonna say the same thing as you Ryan. Outwardrooted it's obvious you've never wrestled a day judging from that comment.

[Ari Bolden]

I was waiting for Ryan to ad his thoughts on that.

Does a bad single leg takedown require skill? No.

Does a bad osoto gari require skill? No

Does a good single or osoto require skill? You better believe it.

Having said that, I will be doing takedown's soon ( I am actually going to be filming some for the new DVD).

There are 4 types of throws:

1) Upper body throws (usually using the arm, wrist, or head/arm to get someone down. Many arts like aikido, hapkido or wing chun have these. See shihonage, kotegeashi or tenchinage for examples

2) Sweeps: Where you use your legs to sweep your partners legs: Judo is a prime example: Osoto Gari, kosoto gari, osoto guruma.

3) Total Throws: these are when you use your whole body to pick up your partner's body (their feet come off the ground). Hip throws, body slams, Ippon Seionage's...

4) Wrestler Shots: this is where you use your upper body to attack the lower part of your partner's body: ankle picks, single leg, double leg, fireman's throw.

[Ryan]

I was waiting for Ryan to ad his thoughts on that.

Does a bad single leg takedown require skill? No.

Does a bad osoto gari require skill? No

Does a good single or osoto require skill? You better believe it.

Having said that, I will be doing takedown's soon ( I am actually going to be filming some for the new DVD).

There are 4 types of throws:

1) Upper body throws (usually using the arm, wrist, or head/arm to get someone down. Many arts like aikido, hapkido or wing chun have these. See shihonage, kotegeashi or tenchinage for examples

2) Sweeps: Where you use your legs to sweep your partners legs: Judo is a prime example: Osoto Gari, kosoto gari, osoto guruma.

3) Total Throws: these are when you use your whole body to pick up your partner's body (their feet come off the ground). Hip throws, body slams, Ippon Seionage's...

4) Wrestler Shots: this is where you use your upper body to attack the lower part of your partner's body: ankle picks, single leg, double leg, fireman's throw.

Ari- that is one of the things I admire most about you. Your not closed minded about other arts. I came to this forum as a bjj, gjj, judo and wrestling fan. I was also huge into Bruce Lee. After reading what you have to say I am interested in learning about jjj and even going more in depth about the culture behind the martial arts.

I just ordered Bruce Lees book and hope to have a better understanding of who he was and what impact he had on todays society. I may not like Aikido but I understand what place it has in the world and respect what it is about. I want to learn so much. I want to learn the foreign names of different throws, holds and such so I am not one dimensional.

I think I am more open minded than most as I have loved studying philosophy and that course has left me with the conclusion that we must learn as much as we can to develop full thoughts. If we think about something at only its shell then we don't know what it is all about or what is inside. We are left without knowledge and knowledge is power.

[Dondo]

GOD BLESS ARI!!!

You are a freaking martial arts encyclopedia, we are all very lucky to have you contribute so much to this forum (insert sappy music here, haha). but seriously, you have freely passed on a ton of knowledge that would take hours and hours and hours of classes to learn. i think i speak for everyone when i say thanks again for all of your contributions. hope to catch up with you next time you're out visiting with Tom. late...

[Ari Bolden]

Hey Nick:

Thanks man. I'm just a guy, like all of you, who loves jj.

I've learned a ton while on this forum as well and I thank everyone for that!

peace
Ari

[Ryan]

How many people outside of the tight MMA/JJ industry have heard of Eddie Bravo? Its nice because we get to hear his theories through Ari.

[DIABLO]

I was also wondering if your gonna show any greco roman wrestling which I like many others believe to be the best wrestling for MMA and is shown by randy couture in many of his fights like recently gonzaga vs couture, but would greco roman also be good in BJJ becuase I have seen grappling videos of people clinching and suddeny out of nowhere flying armbars and triangles

[CEB]

Why do you believe Greco is better for MMA as opposed to Folk or Freestyle? Just curious.

[DIABLO]

Because in MMA every single fight the fighters clinch one time or another so thats when dirty boxing comes into play you can either do tie ups or "oppose your will" on your oppenent and break him dowm and wear him out during the clinch and there are many take downs in the clinch and with greco roman , but im not saying that freestyle is bad just that greco roman can be used more in MMA due to constant clinching hence dirty boxing

[CEB]

Thanks.

........

[Tom Gavrilos]

Why do you believe Greco is better for MMA as opposed to Folk or Freestyle? Just curious.

I believe in most cases Greco is better for modern MMA because so much Muay Thai & Sprawling exists. Shooting from far away is far more dangerous than it used to be. A good Greco fighter can dirty box..avoid the plum clinch...and keep the fight where he wants much more easily than any other style IMO.

[Hadaka Jime]

But i see that we are only really looking at 1 superstar, CEB i see what you mean, there are multiple folk or free style wrestlers, dan henderson is one of them...gray mainard is an up and coming wrestler and there are a lot more free style guys than there are greco in MMA, yeah Randy Couture was an is an amazing fighter, and he was a greco guy, but he is one guy, he did very very very well for himself with greco, but other than him... not many people have proved greco to be a more dominent form of MMA, there are a lot of wrestlers who are good in MMA, i have seen 1 legend use greco and the other people who use it... don't use it as their main skill, randy was a pure greco and dirty boxing guy, but other people who have a greco backround are more free style wrestlers or have JJ or other things as there main skill set, as for free style there are a lot of good wrestlers that use primarily wrestling

my point is other than randy, who is a good pure MMA fighter who uses mainly greco... is there any one who does it... are they any good?

and i am not bashing greco at all, but few people have yet to master it, and yeah wrestling can be dangerous against some one with a good muy thai clinch and more people are stuffing the basic wrestling take downs and shots, so greco has a lot of potential because you utalize the whole cage/ring and IMPOSE (not oppose as Diablo said earlier) your will on the other fighter, randy is a great example, he was a great champ and is a legend in MMA, so i have high hopes for greco, but to say it is that much better than classic wrestling you'd be wrong because there is still lots of talent in free style wrestling

[CEB]

I was just asking a question. I don't know anything about MMA, I'm just an old Judo guy.

My son is a wrestler. He is an 8th grader and is competing in Folk but he plays almost like a Greco wrestler. He is 207 pounds and plays offensive lineman in Junior Football. When he gets older I think he is going to be a very good Greco man because of his upper body size and strength.

What made me wonder was basically everything in Greco is allowed in Freestyle and Folk I think. It is just Greco rules limit it to and upper body takedown game. So I wondered what is it about Greco that was so special.

The specialization imposed by the rules will improve the specific skill sets so I thought the answers made a lot of sense. Again I don't know anything about MMA except what I see on TV.

[Ryan]

But i see that we are only really looking at 1 superstar, CEB i see what you mean, there are multiple folk or free style wrestlers, dan henderson is one of them...gray mainard is an up and coming wrestler and there are a lot more free style guys than there are greco in MMA, yeah Randy Couture was an is an amazing fighter, and he was a greco guy, but he is one guy, he did very very very well for himself with greco, but other than him... not many people have proved greco to be a more dominent form of MMA, there are a lot of wrestlers who are good in MMA, i have seen 1 legend use greco and the other people who use it... don't use it as their main skill, randy was a pure greco and dirty boxing guy, but other people who have a greco backround are more free style wrestlers or have JJ or other things as there main skill set, as for free style there are a lot of good wrestlers that use primarily wrestling

my point is other than randy, who is a good pure MMA fighter who uses mainly greco... is there any one who does it... are they any good?


Dan Severn wasn't too terrible :)

I think Greco is good because you can do it against the cage and it will help fend off Muay Thai a little better. I think Greco is good because there isn't as much technique.

Folk style is good because I think you have more control over an opponent and if you shoot in well enough an opponent can't knee you as your a grounded fighter.

I think folk style may be better for a BJJ fighter.