Submission issues

[Dannicus]

Hey guys,

I was rolling today with my training partner, I was doing particularly well with gaining dominant positions. I could pass his guard, got into side control, mounted, got his back a couple times, even went north/south on him once. I am happy with my progress in my position transitions. My problem lies, I still don't really know what to do once I gain said positions. I know what I would like to do, Americanas, cross collar chokes, etc, etc...But I just don't know how to progress once i have established that position. I feel kind of like, well ok, now what? And while I am trying to figure that out, I get swept, etc, and I have to start all over again. Your thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[Ghosted3]

Do you have friends or family that would drill with you? Drilling is the main way you will get better. You might have to do an armbar 4575603 times before it feels right, but a guillotine could be 20 times to get it right. Just find someone who will work with you on it and take turns drilling different moves. Alternate so you each get helped out like you do 10 keylocks, then your partner does 10 triangles ect..

[BadKarmaRising]

Are you drilling submission sets or just hoping you stumble into a sub while rolling?

Drill
Drill
then Drill some more.

When you roll, roll with different people. It's easier for someone to defend than it is to attack, so if you roll with the same guy all of the time he's got your game down and you feel like you can't accomplish anything.

[Dannicus]

i guess i should explain myself better. I'm not so much talking about technique, more,where do you guys typically start from those positions. Like when mounted, my partner on bottom is tugging at my gi trying to break me down. I clear one hand, but then the other shoots up. etc. I just can't seem to progress. I understand the positional game is huge, but I would like to be able to do something besides hope he puts his hand on the mat, etc. Know what I mean?

[Ari Bolden]

Dan:

The age old question " What to do when I get there????!!!" This is a GREAT question and one I hear ALL the time.

I always tell students to work on positional dominance first. Get really comfortable with those positions and the ability to maintain them under adverse conditions (buck, roll, framing, shrimp, squirm). Once you get good at holding the position, the submission hunting can begin.

At this stage, you suffer from submission focus intensity (SFI). This usually occurs between 2-8 months of practice. You get what you think is a really good position, pause, think about your actions, decide on a submission attempt, change you weighted pressure, go for the attack, telegraph the attack and then, get swept.

The reason higher belts have a higher sub percentage is because the gaps between the thought process and action and much smaller. Some guys can even do it automatically because they've done it so many times. It becomes muscle memory.

There is no magic bullet for this. Your mat time will cause you to learn. What you can do is drill some submissions from the positions you find your self in. For example, go mount and try a cross collar choke with zero resistance. Then, have you partner resist at 10% power, increasing the resistance over 5 minutes. Break down the process and NOTE when it becomes too difficult to get the submission.

What is he doing to block? Where are his arms? Is his chin tucked too tight?

I am not sure if you guys do this at your gym but try playing Jiu Jitsu Chess. This is an awesome tool for learning. I make my students do it...works wonders.

Jiu Jitsu chess is a super slow grappling session when each guy takes a turn doing one move or movement. You switch back and forward between moves. Take you time to analyize what options you have. If you end up in a lock or submission, you can back track to figure out how you got there (or put yourself in it) and make note.

Good Luck

[Tallsilkyslim]

One thing Ive found is that every man is tough. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I almost never get the first sub that I try for. Next time you get a good position, grab an arm or put pressure on the throat. What does his other arm do? And if you attack the throat, what opens up from him defending? I find that attacking the throat opens up an arm and visa versa. I know you are saying that its hard to even get to that point but I find that if im attacking, they are defending. Hope that helps.

[CEB]

i guess i should explain myself better. I'm not so much talking about technique, more,where do you guys typically start from those positions. Like when mounted, my partner on bottom is tugging at my gi trying to break me down. I clear one hand, but then the other shoots up. etc. I just can't seem to progress. I understand the positional game is huge, but I would like to be able to do something besides hope he puts his hand on the mat, etc. Know what I mean?

How many years have you done Jiu Jitsu? It takes time. Patience on the mat is important in several ways.

Positional domination creates the opening for submissions. Note, I'm a jiu jitsu noob.

Whenever I hunt for a submission I get killed but if gain the pin and give the wet blanket treatment the handful of submissions I know just seem to happen. My only goal on the ground is to achieve Side Control, North South, or Scarf-hold. Jiu jitsu guys don't seem to stress training pins though. I am also kind unique though because I train Jiu Jitsu to improve my Judo and am not jung up on becoming a good Jiu Jitsu guy. Though I would like to improve. So I guess you may want to disregard everything I posted. :D and listen to some of the real Jiu Jitsu guys.

[thedogwave]

i'm loving the "jiu jitsu chess" thing, thanks for the idea Ari. i've tried to do similar things with a few people and you just need to find the right people to work with. i mean everyone loves rolling but sometimes it seems like people just want to roll and not think at all, which is awesome and definitely makes things seem like second nature, but sometimes they're too rushed. whenever i get caught or catch someone in something i always ask whoever i'm rolling with about it. it seems like some people just don't want to take the time out to think into what and how something happened because they get so hyped up on just rolling over and over. just find somebody really chill in your class and try different things from all different positions if you get stuck or they get out of something ask them what you could've done better. it's all about communication.
haha, sorry if this is too long or off topic.

[Dannicus]

Yeesssssssssssssssssssssssssss! I could just scream right now. Caught one of my training partners in my very first live roll submission today! Granted we were instructed to roll at half speed, but still....My first submission.....via Americana.

I'm getting there guys..I'm getting there. Thank you all, for all your encouragement and advice!