View Full Version : Shogun vs Liddell confirmed!
Ghosted3
02-01-2008, 03:10 PM
Link - http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=11107
And...discuss!
go Shogun is all I can say.
PhxRph
02-01-2008, 06:40 PM
If Chuck comes out like he did Wandi it will be a long night for Shogun.
Ricky V2
02-01-2008, 08:12 PM
Gotta root for the Iceman. Shogun was unquestionably one of the best fighters ever.....for a brief stint. He's losing his touch. He lost to babalu, and Liddell beat Babalu twice. Should be interesting.
MMAth doesn't work.
I am kind of conflicted actually. I want Shogun to win to bring merit to Forrest Griffin beating him but at the same time I dislike Pride so I want to see Liddell win.
Ghosted3
02-02-2008, 06:14 AM
Babalue beat shogun at a 1 night tourney, when shogun was really young. Like Ryan said MMA Math never works. I mean Silva beat Rampage twice, who beat Chuck twice....who beat Silva. As far as who would I like to win, I really dont care. My wife is one of the biggest Liddell fans, I really want a good match, thats all I really care about!
P.S. Bring Babalu back to the UFC!
Tallsilkyslim
02-02-2008, 09:26 AM
Hey Ryan if you dislike Pride you die now!!!!!!!!:) Now I have to carve your initials in my chest. Whats your last name?:) No seriously I think no matter who wins, the fans win. Thats what counts.
Dondo
02-02-2008, 10:14 AM
as a liddell die hard fan, i too am conflicted, only because i really respect shogun and think he is great for the sport, as the future (if he gets back to his old ways and not peter out as with forrest). this fight scares me as a liddell fan though. i really think shogun will get caught with a right hand and get hurt early. chuck by ref stoppage in the second round, after a back and forth first round. either way, this SHOULD be very exciting
Hey Ryan if you dislike Pride you die now!!!!!!!!:) Now I have to carve your initials in my chest. Whats your last name?:) No seriously I think no matter who wins, the fans win. Thats what counts.
I will give you some things to think about why I don't like Pride.
1. I don't like any fight fought in a ring. The cage gives it more of a street feel, it looks more manacing and there are less breaks in a fight in a cage as nothing is getting caught in the ropes.
2. In Pride, they fought mostly in Japan where there are no regulations such as drug or steroid usage. This is why Pride fighters are getting killed in the States.
3. I hated the stomps and soccer kicks. Kicking a downed opponent in the head is NOT martial arts.
Dante
02-02-2008, 05:31 PM
I've never had a big problem with Pride. They put out some really great fighters and some really great fights. I'm also curious to know if there really were no regulations concerning steroid use, because not all Pride fighters are getting killed.
-Dante
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No, not all Pride fighters are getting killed but of the ones who have fought in the UFC I have noticed a difference in bodies being softer.
I hated the stomps and soccer kicks. Kicking a downed opponent in the head is NOT martial arts.
I somewhat disagree here. As far as sport martial arts goes I think you are right on, but in a real combat situation (which is what martial arts IS intended for) anything you can do to disarm or disable your opponent is legitamite and this includes stomps and soccer kicks. Its a similar arguement to the "ball shots are for pussies" thing.
I would like to see the UFC allow the kicks and knees from the ground if and only if both fighters are on the ground (on knee touching the ground), but continue to ban a standing fighter from kicking/kneeing a downed opponent.
I somewhat disagree here. As far as sport martial arts goes I think you are right on, but in a real combat situation (which is what martial arts IS intended for) anything you can do to disarm or disable your opponent is legitamite and this includes stomps and soccer kicks. Its a similar arguement to the "ball shots are for pussies" thing.
I would like to see the UFC allow the kicks and knees from the ground if and only if both fighters are on the ground (on knee touching the ground), but continue to ban a standing fighter from kicking/kneeing a downed opponent.
In self defense anything goes. Your right. BUT the UFC and Pride is a sports organization (well, UFC is anyways). During a fight on the streets I would probably resort to ball shots and other things if it was needed however we are talking about "sport fighting". Fighters do not have a weapon so there is no need to disarm anyone and the athletic commissions across the country tell each fighter what they can and can't do to disable.
Food for thought, if Pride rules were the "standard" then Pride would still be around. UFC found a way to tame the sport down enough to where it is the fastest growing sport in the country and the majority of states allow it. If people didn't like the new UFC they wouldn't watch it.
My point is, is that the fans want an exciting fight but how exciting would it be if every match was decided by who could hit the other guy in the nuts first? Not much fun after awhile which is why there are rules in place.
gunnsjmg
02-03-2008, 01:33 PM
This match up is excellent and a win for any MMA fan. I'm a fan of Shogun and his whole style he brings to the cage but I'm definitely rooting for my hometown SLO hero the Iceman. He's an awsome fighter and totaly laid back.
Eric?!
02-04-2008, 08:44 AM
War Shogun...
Tallsilkyslim
02-04-2008, 09:14 AM
I will give you some things to think about why I don't like Pride.
1. I don't like any fight fought in a ring. The cage gives it more of a street feel, it looks more manacing and there are less breaks in a fight in a cage as nothing is getting caught in the ropes.
2. In Pride, they fought mostly in Japan where there are no regulations such as drug or steroid usage. This is why Pride fighters are getting killed in the States.
3. I hated the stomps and soccer kicks. Kicking a downed opponent in the head is NOT martial arts.
A menacing cage to make it feel like the street isnt martial arts either. I do agree that there is Way less stops in the cage which makes it better for the fans. But Pride wanted a ring to make it feel more like warriors than thugs. If you watch Pride you will be happy to see at what level they used to treat their fighters. They treated them like royalty. Hey Ari as to not get threads confused maybe you could move this topic to a new thread. I love the Ufc. But Pride was more about martial arts and less about the 20 yrs old american man. If you see the audience in Pride, they are in silence frequently; studying and observing. Its a different crowd and enviroment. R.I.P. Pride
A menacing cage to make it feel like the street isnt martial arts either. I do agree that there is Way less stops in the cage which makes it better for the fans. But Pride wanted a ring to make it feel more like warriors than thugs. If you watch Pride you will be happy to see at what level they used to treat their fighters. They treated them like royalty. Hey Ari as to not get threads confused maybe you could move this topic to a new thread. I love the Ufc. But Pride was more about martial arts and less about the 20 yrs old american man. If you see the audience in Pride, they are in silence frequently; studying and observing. Its a different crowd and enviroment. R.I.P. Pride
I agree that the cage isn't a martial art quality but nothing successful to the mainstream is going to be 100% martial arts friendly or the fans wouldn't buy it. People go into the UFC because they want to be apart of it. For most, its a dream. You can't control the fans. If they want to boo, they will. If they want to be appreciative of the fighters, they will be. This is America. We are allowed to boo, show disapproval and speak out against anything we want. In Japan, it may be different. Just think, the U.S. is fairly new to the martial arts compared to China and Japan.
The fans in Japan are definately more respectful towards fighters and the art of combat as they would never boo a fighter, something which cannot be said for the average person attending a UFC event :rolleyes:
Look at the culture though. How long has martial arts been a staple in American society compared Japan or China? Not long at all. All of our martial arts that we study have came from other countries.....
Muay THAI (Thailand)
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (Brazil)
Judo (Japan)
Aikido (Japan)
Kenpo (Japan)
Krav Maga (Israel)
boxing (Greece)
Kung Fu (China)
Jeet Kune Do (China)
As you can see, America doesn't have the rich heritage of martial arts. 1993 was when America got its first taste of MMA. Greece had Pankration in 648 BC. People in Japan and China had MMA ideas developed in the 60's and 70's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts
MatzeOne
02-05-2008, 11:23 PM
There may be countries, that have a longer "tradition" in the martial arts. But MMA made it into the public. I can't say this from Germany, where we've got some strong boxers and wrestlers. (But nobody cares)
I watched the last UFC at Hooters (interesting place btw) and it was such an awesome atmosphere - like I would have been in Vegas. You don't see that in Germany - even if we could see it in TV...
I don't like the crowd booing. I don't need to tell that we respect those guys that step into the ring or cage or on the mat...
The crowd wants to be entertained. Sure. I don't like boring fights, too. But this is very disrespectful. The japanese fans are very different from that. And it seems, that they are more interested in techniqued. I like that. :)
But anyway. It's good, that MMA has lots of fans in the USA - even if they're booing sometimes.
Just my 2 cents after a good class with my new teammates at 10th planet. :)
See you guys!
we do come from a "freedom of speech" type country so I guess the U.S. fans feel they have a "freedom to boo" if they don't get their monies worth.
Its like going to a beach volleyball tournament. You have some people who love beach volleyball and you have some people who just want to stare at Keri Walshes ass.
Dante
02-07-2008, 10:20 AM
Stare at Keri Walshes ass.hahaha. I thought that's what beach volleyball was for.
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Forkfoot
02-11-2008, 09:05 AM
I don't think this one goes to the ground unless Chuck wants it to, which is a possibility if the stand-up's not going his way (Liddell will never rule out the takedown again after his loss to Jardine). I'm thinking Shogun can outstrike him, but I thought Shogun could outstrike Forrest too, and I thought Wandy could outstrike Chuck, so who knows.
Dannicus
02-11-2008, 12:30 PM
I am a total mark for Chuck Liddell. I think he can beat anybody.....if you asked me who one the chuck/rampage fight...chuck did...he just sent the belt out for cleaning and hasn't gotten it back yet....stupid dry cleaners....
no seriously... this is another one of those fights we've all be waiting forever to see. Not as awesome as the Chuck/Wanderlei fight...but still a huge fight. I want Chuck to win, but I cannot pick a winner.
As for the American fans stuff......Ryan is absolutely right. It happens here in America as opposed to other countries because we live in a society where you can say what you want, when you want. There aren't a whole lot of countries that allow that type of freedom. Most Asian societies teach calm, quiet, and reserved mannerisms. Americans have always been an in your face/larger than life society. But we aren't the only ones. the Romans were the same in the Colosseum. Also, sadly, the vast majority of fight fans in the States want to see someone bleed. It's slowly changing, and more and more fans are becoming more educated about MMA, it's why I started doing Jiu jitsu, to gain a better understanding of the sport I love....hopefully more will do the same and someday down the line Americans will politely clap and bow to fighters after they ground and pound someone into submission.
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