Spreading the word

[Ryan]

have any of you made it a goal to tell just one person about BJJ? I try to find one person every other class or so to talk to about BJJ. A lot of people I talk to actually find the practice interesting as most "old fashioned arts" are all strikes and weapons training.

[Ghosted3]

Yes sir I do, and I try to get them to take a free intro class too lol. The only downside is that most people I talk to live in the same area as I so they do not want to make the trip to the closest school :(

[virginiamma]

Nope I only bring it up if they are talking about it and want to go to a good gym.

[slideyfoot]

I mention it every chance I get, but no luck so far convincing people. There are about four people who've shown an interest at work, one of whom used to train it back in Australia but hasn't got on the mats in a long time. Also been trying to get my gf interested in having a go at BJJ, which has been more successful as she's at least consented to do some rolling at home, which is cool.

Various friends from uni also get the pleasure of being frequently pestered by me to give it a chance. If someone is having a conversation with me and I think there's the slightest possibility they might be interested, BJJ will definitely come up as a topic.

[Ryan]

I think it is really important to tell people about it because the more you try to convince peope to give it a shot the more passionate they feel you are about it and the more confident you are about its effectiveness. Its like if I were in boxing I probably wouldn't tell many people because with my current state of mind I don't think it is a very effective self defense.

[slideyfoot]

I think it is really important to tell people about it because the more you try to convince peope to give it a shot the more passionate they feel you are about it and the more confident you are about its effectiveness. Its like if I were in boxing I probably wouldn't tell many people because with my current state of mind I don't think it is a very effective self defense.

In my case, I don't care about the self defence, I just think its a really cool sport. There aren't many activities that are equally stimulating on a physical and mental level: that's probably why BJJ attracts such a diverse range of people.

On the other hand, I do think its a good idea for women to take it up with self defence in mind, given that BJJ covers exactly the kind of positions a woman might find herself in if she was unlucky enough to face a sexually motivated attack.

Boxing is brilliant self defence - I'd recommend that above BJJ most of the time, if people don't have much time to spend (which IIRC, is the perspective of Geoff Thompson, one of the few SD guys out there who doesn't come across as full of crap). Learning how to hit someone very hard, very fast is a important skill when it comes to defending yourself, though learning how to run away really quick is probably even better. ;)

[Ryan]

I expected to hear boxing was good from a Brit :D

The only reason I feel boxing is crap for self defense is that it is only one teeny tiny aspect of fighting and it probably wouldn't be all that great of a self defense if your on your back or if your arms are being restricted by a second person.

If I were to recommend a striking only martial art to use for self defense it would be Muay Thai.

[slideyfoot]

I expected to hear boxing was good from a Brit :D

Heh - you still haven't. The only thing British about me is where I live: my mum's German and my father's Turkish, while I was born in Belgium. ;)

The only reason I feel boxing is crap for self defense is that it is only one teeny tiny aspect of fighting and it probably wouldn't be all that great of a self defense if your on your back or if your arms are being restricted by a second person.

I'm certainly not the person to convince you: I don't box, and I don't train for self defence. Still, makes sense to me - if not boxing, then judo, as you're then throwing someone on their head, with running away remaining the best option.

[virginiamma]

Ryan its martial arts not religion. You make it sound like your trying to convert the heathens

[Ghosted3]

It kind of is like religion, just to a lesser degree. I mean what it boils down to is you have a system that you believe in and you want to share it with as many people as possible and have them feel the same way you do about the art. Sounds alot like religion...

*disclaimer* I was just using this as an example lets please not start a religious war on the forums, please and thank you.

[BadKarmaRising]

In my case, I don't care about the self defence, I just think its a really cool sport. There aren't many activities that are equally stimulating on a physical and mental level: that's probably why BJJ attracts such a diverse range of people.

On the other hand, I do think its a good idea for women to take it up with self defence in mind, given that BJJ covers exactly the kind of positions a woman might find herself in if she was unlucky enough to face a sexually motivated attack.

Boxing is brilliant self defence - I'd recommend that above BJJ most of the time, if people don't have much time to spend (which IIRC, is the perspective of Geoff Thompson, one of the few SD guys out there who doesn't come across as full of crap). Learning how to hit someone very hard, very fast is a important skill when it comes to defending yourself, though learning how to run away really quick is probably even better. ;)

I go nutty when I think of people actually teaching people to take self defense situations to the ground. I also make a huge distinction between a street/bar fight and an actual violent assult. I've never been in a street or bar fight that I couldn't have avoided with a deft tongue and a fleet foot. They're more unstructed sporting contests than they are self defense situations.

Repelling a violent assult, on the other hand, is most often a life or death matter. The distinction MUST be made and trained accordingly.
Effective self defense training is about avoiding, eluding, and if need be, repelling a violent attack. It's not an ego contest being settled on the playground, it's for real and usually for keeps.

That being said, going to the ground intentionally in a true self defense situation borders on mental retardation. Teaching it, borders on criminal neglect.

[Ghosted3]

Karma - I agree on some points of taking the fight to the ground and I also disagree. I would not like to be on the ground, JJ training or not, something about boots to the face have never really caught my likings lol. But I do think if the opportunity is open to throw someone correctly and armbar with full intentions of popping the limb, then that could give you the time needed to get as far away as possible. How often would this scenerio be open, who knows. Would most people be willing to try it, who knows. I 100% agree with you that everyone should try to cool the situation down and hopefully walk away.

[Tom Gavrilos]

I try to do my part with this forum :)

[Ryan]

I go nutty when I think of people actually teaching people to take self defense situations to the ground. I also make a huge distinction between a street/bar fight and an actual violent assult. I've never been in a street or bar fight that I couldn't have avoided with a deft tongue and a fleet foot. They're more unstructed sporting contests than they are self defense situations.

Repelling a violent assult, on the other hand, is most often a life or death matter. The distinction MUST be made and trained accordingly.
Effective self defense training is about avoiding, eluding, and if need be, repelling a violent attack. It's not an ego contest being settled on the playground, it's for real and usually for keeps.

That being said, going to the ground intentionally in a true self defense situation borders on mental retardation. Teaching it, borders on criminal neglect.


So the Gracies are retarded? Their form of NHB fighting was for self defense. Obviously you want to be aware of your surroundings in a fight and you don't want to pull guard with your head against the curb but really though..... whats the point of all of this and what is the point of learning BJJ if not for self defense?

[Ryan]

I go nutty when I think of people actually teaching people to take self defense situations to the ground. I also make a huge distinction between a street/bar fight and an actual violent assult. I've never been in a street or bar fight that I couldn't have avoided with a deft tongue and a fleet foot. They're more unstructed sporting contests than they are self defense situations.

Repelling a violent assult, on the other hand, is most often a life or death matter. The distinction MUST be made and trained accordingly.
Effective self defense training is about avoiding, eluding, and if need be, repelling a violent attack. It's not an ego contest being settled on the playground, it's for real and usually for keeps.

That being said, going to the ground intentionally in a true self defense situation borders on mental retardation. Teaching it, borders on criminal neglect.

Don't get me wrong.... avoiding is the best way to go but sometimes you just can't do that. Also, I agree that taking fight to ground is a bad idea when he has 5 friends or when in an enclosed space like a bar but I have never been in a fight where it wasn't just me and someone else. No weapons, no friends.

[MatzeOne]

But fighting standing against six opponents don't increase your chance to get out of it in a good condition, too. ;)

[Tom Gavrilos]

Im not sure but I would be willing to wager that I have been in more bar/street fights than 99% of the people on this forum + a pro MMA Fight.

What comes to mind when I read the above:
Sounds too much based on calm logical and too little situational reality.

If you were to ask me "Tom if two people are coming at me and I have to fight for my life what should I do." I would most likely tell you to keep one directly in front of the other at all times and try to debilitate the closest one with strikes. Id say "stay off the ground at all costs!"

Then if you asked "Tom have you ever had that happen in all the situations you have found yourself in bouncing and otherwise" and I would say "NO" Dosen't mean it couldn't but in all my experiences it hasn't

Here is what I see all the time:

1 guy talking sh!t and getting in my face. If I can't avoid a confrontation at the bar I can almost always position myself for a standing rear naked. From there I walk backwards with my knee in the small of his back and choke fully sunk in till he mutters stop (or if it were a street fight choke till he is out)

The reason this works:
His friends don't know what to do! Their buddy is being choked so fast and by the time he is out on the ground they are just trying to help them and if not you are still standing. I am also in control and can see whats going on even with the submission sunk. If I were to strike and move he would still be a threat along with the others. Instead Im moving away and 1 person is neutralized.


Ive also been in a situation where one guy hit me in the temple from behind I fell forward forwards basically on my face at the bar. As I got up dizzy he came up to me and I grabbed him and we sloppily hit the floor. If I didnt know BJJ to defend myself I would have been done. If I just stood up and tried to run i would have been done. i wouldnt even make it to the door my bell was so rung. The fact that I got on him and applied a kimra from side is the only reason I was able to intelligently defend myself.

I agree with most SD "conventional thinking" in terms of multiple assailants who are all willing to fight...OR lif you are getting jumped! Then going to the ground is a death sentence.

Knowing BJJ has done nothing but good for me. Even a few simple submissions have been invaluable when it came to situations that posed a serious threat and called for immediate self defense.

Even when Ari was over once and I was messing with the roid head what did all the drunks do when i put him in that triangle!?? they didnt know me. they didnt know I was grappling for fun at all. they just watched! his girlfriend who i didnt even know came over drunk trying to pry him free by pulling on my legs. If I wanted to finish him and continue to the next threat in a real fight it would have been very simple to do.

The only way it would have backfired is if they ran up fast enough to start stomping me but my bet is they would be more scared to engage than anything. And even more concerned about their big roidhead friend they are all intimidated by being completely unconscious laying there.

Just a few of my personal experiences and my .02 cents for what its worth :)

P.S. for multiple willing assailants and weapon defense I personally believe Krav Maga is the most complete Self Defense art you can learn.

[Ryan]

Tom- good information. I forgot about Krav Maga but maybe because its not taught anywhere around me. :(

I also want to state that I have always agreed with Badkarma that going to the ground while being attacked by many is stupid. BUT going to the ground or applying BJJ when it is 1 on 1 seems safe for someone like me who is more comfortable on the ground anyway.

I don't know if its where I come from or just my luck but I have never seen a fight where more than 2 people are fighting. I have never seen 2 on 1 or more. I think most people in my area have a courtesy that when a fight starts the buddy is responsible for forming the circle.:)

[slideyfoot]

what is the point of learning BJJ if not for self defense?

Fun? I'm picturing you going to training with a dead serious expression on your face, demanding your partners roll outside on the concrete. :p

Surely you enjoy it too, not purely view it as a means to defend yourself?

[Ryan]

Sure martial arts are fun but BJJ wasn't created by a bunch of guys sitting around on a Saturday night saying "Gee, lets figure out a way to have fun. Oh, I got it, lets make up a martial art that concentrates on chokes, joint manipulation and bone breaking locks" . See what I mean? Yeah, fun but the point was to defend yourself

[slideyfoot]

See what I mean? Yeah, fun but the point was to defend yourself

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean everyone who then takes up the style is bound to the original purpose. E.g., I often wear combat trousers, but I'm sure as hell not about to go into war: I've no intention of using them for what they were initially intended, they just happen to be comfy and practical. ;)

[Ryan]

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean everyone who then takes up the style is bound to the original purpose. E.g., I often wear combat trousers, but I'm sure as hell not about to go into war: I've no intention of using them for what they were initially intended, they just happen to be comfy and practical. ;)

good point.

I guess that when I find a place to train I will be training for multiple purposes.

1- I will train to learn self defense. I already have a decent background with Judo and wrestling so BJJ will just be more ammo in my repetoire.
2- I will train for exercise
3- I will train to have fun

I am not sure if Ari can say the same thing about his students but I have heard of kids mostly getting into martial arts for various reasons

1. disciplinary problems- I know my mom put me in Okinowan Karate for a few years to help w/ ADHD and to teach me discipline and respect
2. exercise- kids exercise more when they have fun.... duh :)
3. self defense- some kids get picked on so their parents enroll them to help defend themselves. In my school, kids who knew a martial art were rarely picked on.
4. social activity/fun- kids want to know more kids and this common interest is a good way of doing that.

Ari- socially, does your school have a lot of "friday night activities" such as a martial arts movie and pizza? I remember my old martial arts school would invite everyone over for pizza, pop and a new martial arts movie.

[Ari Bolden]

I don't do that with my teens class. I might do it for a summer camp for them, but usually I work Fri/Sat anyways or I am out of town training or attending seminars.

It's not that it is a bad idea, it's just I am a bit busy with everything else, I just don't have the time.

[Ryan]

Thats cool, I understand. I guess I was also giving a suggestion for a word of mouth thing for marketing.

I will someday make it up to your dojo.:)