Not Tapping

[PhxRph]

This happened once in each of my last two classes. I got guys in chokes (a standing guillotine on a wrestler, and a RNC).
In the first case the guy didn't tap, and I let go b/c I didn't want to hurt him. As soons as I loosened up he started to cough, and I backed off. Then he finishes his takedown while I'm worring about him and we finish rolling.
The second guy coughs once and then starts to go limp before finally tapping. I had this RNC in deep, both hooks in, and he was flattened out.
All I can say is WTF? I'm still new enough that I know that I could hurt someone and not realize it, but at what point should I say screw it you're taking a nap?

[BadKarmaRising]

guys like that are usually the same guys who wind up actually hurting someone. If they don't respond well to a candid conversation on the topic, it would be my suggestion to find different training partners.

[Tallsilkyslim]

IMO, if you are learning jiujitsu and you are too stubborn to tap or are afraid to bruise your ego, you deserved to be choked out. I never let go until someone taps. However, I think you did the right thing. My first instructor only charged me two things-a lil bit of ego and two bottles of water. I would talk to these guys and make it clear that YOU will not stop until they tap and explain that its ok to tap. Everyone does.

[PhxRph]

One of the guys, the wrestler, is a nice kid but a little wild. The other guy is also cool enough, but I think it bugs him that I can mount and choke him out. He's got about twice as much time training as I do, and outweighs me by 40-50 pounds.
Thanks for the input as well. If it keeps happening I'll definitely let the instructor know.

[Tallsilkyslim]

The only injuries that occur in Jiu Jitsu frequently are typically brought on by someone not tapping. I have seen it a lot. The FIRST rule anyone should know when rolling is your partner will not stop until you tap. It's a gentlemens game. Tap or nap. Sorry if I seem jaded, but nothing makes me more frustrated then so called "tough guys" that want to win instead of learn. Happy training!!

(I'm passive aggresive)

[JayC]

I remember a guy once said he never has to tap out, and then he sparred with a purple belt, the guy got him in an armbar, and well, you know the saying:

Tap or Snap.

He chose the idiotic route.

[BadKarmaRising]

The only injuries that occur in Jiu Jitsu frequently are typically brought on by someone not tapping. I have seen it a lot. The FIRST rule anyone should know when rolling is your partner will not stop until you tap. It's a gentlemens game. Tap or nap. Sorry if I seem jaded, but nothing makes me more frustrated then so called "tough guys" that want to win instead of learn. Happy training!!

(I'm passive aggresive)

Tap or nap is cool, tap or snap not so cool. Sometimes a good choke goes on so quickly they're out before the command that the brain sent to tap never makes it to the hand. :)

I'm not about to crank someone's arm just becaust they won't tap though. I learned very quickly not to roll with ego maniacs or spaz's. Someone always gets hurt.

[thedogwave]

i know what you're saying man. the other day i was rolling with this kid i talked to online who had a wrestling background and thought jiu jitsu didn't have "power behind it". i got him in a choke and he took forever to tap then he finally gave me a quick slap on the leg so i let go, then this kid just pushes me over and mounts me trying to act like he didn't tap. it was unbelievable, we were the only people there i couldn't believe he was trying to tell me he didn't tap. i'll admit that after he left i was kind of regretting not putting him to sleep. in a nice way of course. tapping and learning is definitely better than denying and and being an idiot.

[Ghosted3]

Talk to your instructor and let him/her know so this can be addressed. No one needs to be hurt in training, but it seems that will be the only way some people like that learn.

[PhxRph]

Tap or Nap I'm kind of OK with, Tap or Snap I'd never do to anyone. I'm sure everything will be fine in the class. Everyone is really cool and always trying to help each other.

[michaelwbray]

In competition "tap or snap" I'm more then happy with. In training I'm not. Having said that, I think if you increase the pressure slowly enough, 99% of people will tap before you break their arm.

If I've got a choke on and they aren't tapping, I'm usually talking to them...

"Are you tapping yet.... I'm not gonna let go... <<squeeze a bit harder>> you gonna tap?..."

If they fall asleep I'll let go. I make it clear I'm not letting go otherwise.

[danjr]

funny, I just napped today in Judo. It wasn't an ego thing. I knew I was getting choked but I was passing his guard and almost had side mount and next thing I knew I was looking up at everyone looking down on me. I'm fine, my fingertips are a little tingly but I'm not sure if the choke is the cause because I cut my fingernails a little too short and they might just be raw from grip fighting. Anyhoo, it was a good nap but I didn't realize that I was out until I woke up. It's a good idea to talk to the guy because you never know. Also someone told me that everyone that gets choked out snores... confirm/deny?

Also, while I was out I bit my cheek hardcore because I didn't have a mouthpiece in (bad idea). I don't know why but nobody in my judo class ever wears a mouthpiece.

[Hadaka Jime]

i always roll with good players and we tap when we know were caught as it hurts before it breaks but you can fight it untill you know you could be snapped on a choke we just tap, unless maybe heel crank or can defend but when a choke is sunk in always tap with us and no 1 has an ego problem were all cool with eachother and don't want to hurt eachother so we work well together and know when to do what

[flying gogo-plata]

on a choke, i'd just plain choke em out it's not like it'll kill them, and for the joint locks well... in a competition i'd say go ahead and rip their arm off, but in training just kinda tell them if u crank harder it's gonna break, after that u've given them their chance, and u can go to town with the submission it's their fault if something breaks, it's happened to me twice wiht this one blue belt who won't tap to anyone who's a lower belt than him and i, got him twice in a heel hook, first time his knee started popping and i let go cuz i was scared so i let go, he limped around a little but was fine the next day, the next time it happened i sat their for like 3 minutes just holding the heel hook and and trying to explain to him that this was really gonna suck for him if he didn't tap, after awhile the coach saw him squirming around, and broke us up, but some people are just stubborn:(

[TheSaddestDay]

Another option is if you find yourself against an ego maniac, or a moron, unexpectedly that won't tap to armlocks or heel hooks or anything, when you know you have it and they refuse to give up just let them go and tell them to stop before they mount another attack. From there just end your sparring with them... I found myself in a situation like that once and knew he'd jump back on me so I told him we were done and let go of the submission. He bitched and moaned a bit but from my point of view, tap or not (due to ego or stubborness) in training an injury would be just as much my fault for cranking.

[BadKarmaRising]

I don't know why but nobody in my judo class ever wears a mouthpiece.


It's the seedy and somewhat retarded underbelly of tradition. The rules in shiai prohibit anything hard on the mat. It's a DQ offense (hansoku make).

That includes cups, mouth pieces, I've even seen it issued for someone having hard plastic strap toggles on a knee brace.

It's a brutal policy, if you walk onto the mat with it, you're out, period. They don't say "hey, you forgot to take your earrings off." You're just headed to the locker room.