Ari - Bar Room Takedown Advice

[Tom Gavrilos]

Mr Ari! I got one for ya bro.

Ok heres the scenario. No mats just a bar floor.

Secuirty guard Im going to grapple with not nearly as skilled as I am but still a big black dude weighing in at 240lbs at about 5'8 (college football)
CLEAR raw stength advantage.

He keeps yaking about BJJ so I told him Id wrestle him Saturday (tonight) after the bar closes ( I know I have a weird life Ill try and get it on video haha):D

Goal: not hurt him or myself in transition to ground
I dont want to get him in a Greco Clinch and leg trip him cause I might bounce his head off the floor.
I was thinking double but his legs are like tree trunks and he knows how to sprawl.
Arm drag is also out of the question because
a. hes really strong
b. If I take his back I think he may try and pull a Ricco vs. Marcelo and "jump" backwards to the ground as I sink the RNC.

What would you do.....well your probably smart enough to avoid these things in general so...what do you think I should do? :D

- Tom

[Sankaku]

So I know I'm not Ari, but I got years of judo, and we're all about our throws.
Have you thought about a shoulder or hip throw? He more than likely won't land on his head and you'll have his arm to submit him. If he's a strong guy he will try to keep you from getting close, but use a grip like an under hook for O Goshi, Ippon Seoi Nage, soto makikomi with a wizard grip. These throws I use ageinst 200lb'ers and I'm 130, they work. I'm sure Ari can help you out more. Hope I helped little.

[Fox1s2]

I agree....some judo throw with an armbar finish...plain and simple.

[Ari Bolden]

Tom:

You've got a bit a problem. Obviously there is a concern with a hard floor and such. As much as I LOVE judo and throws, I think these are out of the question unless you really want to hurt him. I've worked the bar as a bouncer for 12 years. I've seen what happens when you put a guy down. I use a O Soto Gari all the time (outer reap throw) but then again , I don't really care about the guy I am doing it too. I use the ground to knock the wind out of him and then go for arresting techniques.

His center of gravity is lower than yours and he'll probably be hunched over looking like he'll shoot in.He'll probably be tight and try to work the inside on you.

I would, if I were you, go in, go for a clinch and then pull guard on him. I don't usually advise such a tactic but in the interest of not bashing your knees to bits (on a taken down) or him smacking his head on a throw, this is your safest option.

Immediately look for a better position or sweep if you can the moment you pull guard (or a triangle, that would be a good try..bait him in). I'd love to see the video of it afterwards (someone bring your camera).

Fighting is fluid and unpredictable. Since he is your buddy, too many "harder techniques" are out of the question. Now, in my experience, guys who don't have BJJ or grappling will go with the side head lock (trying to pull an alpha make dominance thing on you). I bet he'll try it.

Maybe fake a low crotch take down and spin to his back. Or grab on to his leg and wrap yourself around it and make him come to your level.

Don't waste your time and energy trying to throw or stand up with a guy like that. Get him to your world as quick as possible.

Good Luck...let me know how it turns out!

Cheers
Ari

[Tom Gavrilos]

Thanks everyone for your input!

Ari I was thinking Im going to try to somehow bait him to shoot and lock his head and arm up...like a wrestlers headlock... and sprawl out.
Not sure he will shoot Im thinking he will more "bum rush"...again football player.

My concern with pulling guard is that if I sink a Triangle etc... he might out of instinct try to pic me up and slam me. Id like to end up on top or having his back.
I will try my best to get it on video either way there will be many witnesses and Ill get you the details!:)

[Ari Bolden]

Tom:

These are poor quality but funny nonetheless.

This was taken about 4 years ago in my bar that I work at.
http://www.innantech.com/Ari/guillotine1.avi (head and arm guillotine just like you said!!!!)
http://www.innantech.com/Ari/rearchokebar.avi (I started with my BACK to him)
http://www.innantech.com/Ari/guillotinereversal.avi (me 'giving' him my head for a guillotine)

I was crazy in my youth too! laugh
Ari

[Sankaku]

Guard is great too, after all the ground is your world , just be conferrable with what ever you do. The voice in your head, will probly be the best judge of what you should do, just stay calm and do what your best at. Good Luck.

[Tom Gavrilos]

Ari they released those to you!?
Im trying to watch them but cant see AVIs for some reason!

Sadly at the last moment the bouncer backed off.
Im sure he will never hear the end of it from his buddies but he just said he didnt want to "risk injury"

Probably for the better but Im pist I was all amped up to wrestle!!!:mad:

[Bill]

its a shame. I was hoping for another DDT KO

[younwha]

Clinch, both hands behind the head, elbows tight so he can't pull out. Step back, pulling his head in a downward angle while twisting. You end up in side control. Something simple, and something that is in basically every MMA class. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

[younwha]

Found a video so I don't look like an idiot. He's not very clean, but you get the idea.


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[One*]

Don't know if this is possible in your predicament, so I hope someone can review it. Though I pulled it off today during a Judo drill.

While your opponent is ranging you, grab+trap his wrist and use a kote-gaeshi...

[SavageKitsune]

Arm drag is also out of the question because
a. hes really strong


Sorry for the dumb newb question- but from what I've seen of arm drags so far, they seem to work just as well for yanking YOURSELF into position as for yanking the OTHER GUY into position. When I do an "arm drag" on a big guy, he doesn't budge, but I still wind up behind him.

Am I totally off base here or what? :confused:

[Otto]

Sorry for the dumb newb question- but from what I've seen of arm drags so far, they seem to work just as well for yanking YOURSELF into position as for yanking the OTHER GUY into position. When I do an "arm drag" on a big guy, he doesn't budge, but I still wind up behind him.

Am I totally off base here or what? :confused:

I hear ya, sister. I, too, have grabbed onto bigger guys and ended up pulling myself into/behind/beside them instead of the other way around. I don't think it's ever planned, (at least not with me) it just happens. Especially when they YANK away violently and you hang on.

But like everything else, you go with the flow and move from the position you find yourself in.
Being small/light does have some advantages, though. I got into it with a really big drunk and he swept me aside. Then I was behind him, and grabbed his collar and the back of his belt and pressed my chest to his back. Poor bastard couldn't find me. He spun and lurched and threw some elbows and tried to reach around and I just softly rode him (staying light on me feet)
Then I pulled him to his ass (foot to back of knee).
At this point, several of us talked to him about the error of his ways, then walked him out. He never did get his car keys back.

[zaxonortesus]

Zombie!!!!

[CEB]

I hear ya, sister. I, too, have grabbed onto bigger guys and ended up pulling myself into/behind/beside them instead of the other way around. I don't think it's ever planned, (at least not with me) it just happens. Especially when they YANK away violently and you hang on.

But like everything else, you go with the flow and move from the position you find yourself in.
Being small/light does have some advantages, though. I got into it with a really big drunk and he swept me aside. Then I was behind him, and grabbed his collar and the back of his belt and pressed my chest to his back. Poor bastard couldn't find me. He spun and lurched and threw some elbows and tried to reach around and I just softly rode him (staying light on me feet)
Then I pulled him to his ass (foot to back of knee).
At this point, several of us talked to him about the error of his ways, then walked him out. He never did get his car keys back.

Some of my boy's best moves are takedowns off arm drag / duck unders. It is a moves designed to take the back.

He wrestles a lot at 218-222 in the early season which puts him in the 275 pound class. This makes him the runt.

The funny thing was he cut weight and wrestled 215 last year and he had a lot better record against the heavyweights. The 215 guys were a lot quicker than the guys in the Dancing Bear division.

[SavageKitsune]

I hear ya, sister. I, too, have grabbed onto bigger guys and ended up pulling myself into/behind/beside them instead of the other way around. I don't think it's ever planned, (at least not with me) it just happens. Especially when they YANK away violently and you hang on.


I'm not complaining about it... it seems to me that it effects the desired outcome (you end up behind the opponant) just fine either way. So yeah, I **DO** plan it that way.

My point being, I'm disagreeing with what the OP said regarding an arm drag being "out of the question" on account of the opponant being really strong.

[Ari Bolden]

I'm not complaining about it... it seems to me that it effects the desired outcome (you end up behind the opponant) just fine either way. So yeah, I **DO** plan it that way.

My point being, I'm disagreeing with what the OP said regarding an arm drag being "out of the question" on account of the opponant being really strong.


I hate when someone clinches me like this. Its happened a few times over the years. The plum thai clinch is very effective too!

My response: thumbs in the eyes or drop down to one knee and punch to the groin. Yes, it works wonders to get some asshole off you.

[zaxonortesus]

Ari, do you really think dropping to one knee is effective? I have always thought that getting off of my feet at all is bad and should be avoided... they say "beat feet" not "beat knee" or "beat one knee, one foot" after all. And I do like to stay mobile. Also, you seem very suseptable to knees to the kisser.

[Ari Bolden]

Ari, do you really think dropping to one knee is effective? I have always thought that getting off of my feet at all is bad and should be avoided... they say "beat feet" not "beat knee" or "beat one knee, one foot" after all. And I do like to stay mobile. Also, you seem very suseptable to knees to the kisser.

I should clarify. If I can't kick you in nuts then I just drop down (elbows protecting my kisser of course) and go for my target. I don't literally stay on my knee...just fast enough to get the person to think of something else than holding onto my head.

Having said that, I never, EVER, let people touch or grab me anywhere while I work. A clinch like this is pretty rare now a days because you can see it coming. Basically, it is a different medium I operate in, so take that into account.:)

[schufflerbot]

its a shame. I was hoping for another DDT KO

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e164/schufflerbot/thread_necromancer.png