Jiu Jitsu gradings.

[michaelwbray]

Just got home from our grading session tonight. Double graded - went from white belt with one blue stripe to white belt with 3 blue stripes. I'm about 9 months off a blue belt I think... need to really work on my jiu jitsu, but a lot of things are starting to click now. Been doing jiu jitsu for about 10 months now I think.

Just wanted to know what the format for grading is at your gyms? I know a lot of people don't do stripes, and give a blue belt out to a student when they feel that they can hang with other blue belts.

We have grading sessions every 3 months. Each level you get to builds on the other levels.

I.e.

White belt - first stripe has 5 moves that you have to learn. These are basic things such as guard passing, maintaining mount, transitioning to knee on belly, moving from side control to front control etc.

Second stripe has 15 moves - 4 submissions, 3 sweeps, 3 escapes, and then a few other things like breaking and maintaining guard posture etc.

Third stripe - 10 submissions, 2 passes, 1 sweeps, 1 take down, 1 escape.

To grade to the third stripe, we have to do all 35 moves in less then 10 mins without the moves being called out or without any notes etc. To get to four stripes there is 50 moves you have to remember (15 + the previous 35...)

After that, you have to wrestle 8 X 5 min rounds and how well you do there is factored in to wether or not you grade.

To get to blue belt, you have to do all 50 white belt moves, 10 more blue belt moves, plus you have to do well in competition. I.e. you can just hang around long enough to get a blue belt, you have to train hard and earn it.

By the time you get up into purple etc I think its about 110 moves you have to know from memory. I'm not looking forward to it at all. Even the purple belts have to demonstrate all 50 white belt moves, then all the blue belt moves before moving on to their purple belt moves.

During the weeks leading up to grading, Elvis lets the students know who is eligible to come to grading, and what level they are grading to.

Sorry if I rambled on too much. Curious how other schools grade. I think this is the system that most machado schools use, I'd imagine the 10th planet and gracie schools would be different.

[Ryan]

I like the systems that grades based on tournament results. Maybe not by just getting the W but that they executed the sweeps, maintained a solid guard or performed with some skill.

Its weird of me but I can grapple in front of 1000 people but I can't demonstrate something for a panel of 5-6 sensei's.

[Ghosted3]

As much as I dislike it, our school grades on time you have been there. IE, after so many months of coming at least twice a week you get a stripe. No testing or grading. Sometimes you get stripes or belts early but thats kind of rare.
I am not a big fan of our system, and I am also not a real big fan of the "if you can do 150 moves you can progress" either. I have always been a fan of, if you start giving blue belts alot of problems, and beating some, then maybe its time for you to be promoted ect.

[Ryan]

As much as I dislike it, our school grades on time you have been there. IE, after so many months of coming at least twice a week you get a stripe. No testing or grading. Sometimes you get stripes or belts early but thats kind of rare.
I am not a big fan of our system, and I am also not a real big fan of the "if you can do 150 moves you can progress" either. I have always been a fan of, if you start giving blue belts alot of problems, and beating some, then maybe its time for you to be promoted ect.

Do you think maybe some academies do not do the whole thing where if you give a blue belt fits that you should be promoted because some blue belts were giving in so the white belt can be promoted?

[Shonuff]

Our school doesn't do stripes... what we do is every couple of months there is a white belt tournament.

The matches are done after class when everyone is tired, and the only way to win is by sub. No points nonsense. So over the course of a month the whitebelts get whittled down one by one until there is one left standing. That guy gets to go against a blue belt. If he wins that match he gets promoted. If not, he stays a white belt and waits for the next tourney to try again.

We have a metric fuckton of white belts. :p

[Ari Bolden]

Therein lies the problem with the belting system across styles and schools. Let us just say that there are 3 sub styles or ways to give belts, as you guys mentioned. 1) Time spent training 2) The ability to demonstrate moves when asked 3) Actually ability to hang with other belts of that level.

Each school/instructor (and his/her students) will argue against the other type of gradings because 'it isn't what they do' (unless it is Corry who thinks it should be the other way). The fact of the matter is that each way has its pros and cons and the modern system of martial arts (not just jiu jitsu) has had this 'problem' for a long time.

As for Eddie, what he does is this (for instructor status):

You must demonstrate that you know the basics of jj along with 80% of his TOP and BOTTOM game with all the terminology and the ability to teach each move with the steps involved. He also watches you roll with several levels of students to see how you apply the techniques in each setting. You have to also put together video of both teaching and rolling for him and other 10PJJ instructors to look at. From there, he makes his call. Belt promotion is usually done informally and when you don't expect it.

No everyone competes. Not everyone teaches. So, he takes both into account. For his students (and students under his belt instructors), he/we look at the ability of the student and how they are applying the techniques when rolling in class over an X amount of time.

I have a 16 year old who is an absolute whiz at 10pjj. The kid is real close to an (adult) blue belt level with about 11 months of training.

There is no standard. That is why there are times in tourney's where one guy sweeps the his division because one blue belt from one school might be a purple in another.

[Ryan]

What would happen if a white belt is an excellent grappler and can do the moves and wins almost every match but either A- freezes during testing or B- just isn't good at tests? Like me for instance, I am not good at remembering Judo throw names or the history of an art but I can perform the move in a fight. This is why I never was belted when I was in Judo/Jiu-Jitsu at the YMCA...... they wouldn't promote me on skill alone, I had to know the history to an extent, Jap. language to an extent and I just couldn't do it. So there I was..... a white belt tapping the greens/brown. The instructor said the main reason he wouldn't promote me on skill is because I beat them with wrestling and VERY little JJ.

[CEB]

In life there exists only 2 grades.

1) teacher
2) student

:D

[CEB]

As much as I dislike it, our school grades on time you have been there. IE, after so many months of coming at least twice a week you get a stripe. No testing or grading. Sometimes you get stripes or belts early but thats kind of rare.
I am not a big fan of our system, and I am also not a real big fan of the "if you can do 150 moves you can progress" either. I have always been a fan of, if you start giving blue belts alot of problems, and beating some, then maybe its time for you to be promoted ect.


Lee and I got ours early. Lee because he is good. Me because of my handsome looks and impacable charm. :D

[Ghosted3]

Lee and I got ours early. Lee because he is good. Me because of my handsome looks and impacable charm. :D

You and Lee were both due, and the exception to the rule too. You each got promoted a week or 2 early because Master Carlos was there, so it was very cool to be belted by him. That is understandable.

[JRT6]

I like the system outlined by the TS because it lays out a specific set of skills and goals one has to obtain to advance. People seem to forget that white belt is where one learns all the basics and blue belt is where they start learning to apply them. Leave the subjectivity to the blue belt and higher ranks and leave the objectivity in the white belts.

[Adam]

^^^
Right on brother!!!!

[Ryan]

I like the system outlined by the TS because it lays out a specific set of skills and goals one has to obtain to advance. People seem to forget that white belt is where one learns all the basics and blue belt is where they start learning to apply them. Leave the subjectivity to the blue belt and higher ranks and leave the objectivity in the white belts.

Is that your way of avoiding getting tapped by a white belt as a blue belt? I think all belts should be allowed to apply what they have learned in live rolling with certain rules set aside for safety i.e. knee bars.

Doing a move that is called out to apply and then graded on is like taking your drivers test in a parking lot where you only have to use your gear shifter instead of actually taking the car on the road.

[fz1]

Our school breaks down like this

white belt 9 months to 18 months, most 1 year
blue belt 2 years to 2.5 years
purple 2.5 years
brown 3 years
black

[Ryan]

Our school breaks down like this

white belt 9 months to 18 months, most 1 year
blue belt 2 years to 2.5 years
purple 2.5 years
brown 3 years
black

Is there a class requirement like 2/wk?

[flying gogo-plata]

my school gives every u a stipe every 25 classes if ur a white belt, every 50 classes if ur a blue belt ect. after 4 stripes u can test for ur next belt and tests are done every 3 months or so. however if u win in a reallybig tournament u'll usually get a stripe, or belted, or if u do really well in class, u can get a stripe or belt earlier

[blackfox]

lol wow, im in the dog pound. At my school everyone rolls there first night (if you choose), no rules on subs (you dont want it done you have to say so) and up untill like 3 months ago there was no belt system, our intructor was a blue belt and had ben doing jiu jitsu for 8 years under a former Royce Gracie student who just turned 70 (dident start BJJ till 40 and stopped trying to get belts at purple he retired two weeks ago)

So now we have a gracie barra black belt who comes around once in awhile and aperently he will be giving belts form now on but i havent figured out how. I havent rolled with him yet and i guess thats the first step. I know that 5 or so students were preping for a belt test last week but i dont know what ever happened i just knwo they're all still wearing white belts.

I just know i want a new belt :) and another beer.

[prodigypenn]

i like the system my instructor uses, he promotes u when he feels u have gotten good enough to move on, based on your performance on both drilling techniques as well as live training not that if u can submit a blue belt u get a blue belt but if u show a major improvement in ur techniques u can b promoted and so on until u have reached a blue belt level or w/e

[JRT6]

Is that your way of avoiding getting tapped by a white belt as a blue belt? I think all belts should be allowed to apply what they have learned in live rolling with certain rules set aside for safety i.e. knee bars.

Doing a move that is called out to apply and then graded on is like taking your drivers test in a parking lot where you only have to use your gear shifter instead of actually taking the car on the road.

Ryan you got a non sequiter going there on the second paragraph so I'm not going to address it. As for the first how about this analogy: I tapped a purple belt with a brabo choke yesterday. Does that mean I get promoted to blue belt and he gets demoted to blue? Of course not and competition isn't even the basis for promotion to blue belt. My school has tournament winners in white belts who didn't even get a stripe out of it. Any white belt with a little wrestling background and a couple subs can go clean the mat at a local tourney and still not even know half of what they should know to make blue. The rules for white belt is learning basic JJ and applying it comes at blue belt and above. I don't even compete or live roll a lot does that mean I'm white belt for life when my technique and detail is more than enough for any blue?

[gooch]

i've never tested for a jj belt so i can't comment completely, but when i was active in karate (kyokushin) my sensei used to test like this

-you had to come to class, not every one, but enough that he knew you were serious about it, it was his call on who could test, tests were every 4 months or so

-you had to show knowledge of the required learning for the belt, for karate, this was mostly katas and such, kicks, strikes and proper teqhnique

-you had to spar, hard, we went at about 80%-90% of max for test, and you had to test 1 round, with a fresh fighter for every stripe or belt (2 stripes per belt), you could not give up, or get knocked out, and were almost always sparring much better belts

-belts were tough to come by, and i thought it pretty par for the course till other blacks would come and drop in for classes and our blues would frequently be too much for them to handle

i guess it depends on the teacher, there doesn't seem to be a set criteria

ps- it was extremely rare to see a lower belt beat someone above him in a sparring session, 2 belts above was almost unheard of

[ATrain11267]

My Sensei is very careful when handing out belts or stripes. He reasons that there are too many people walking around with black belts that would get their clock cleaned out on the street. We have a dojo in our town that promotes 8 and 9 years old to black belt, which is just wrong, but the parents pay for it. We are first and foremost a self-defence dojo ( incorporating Goju-Ryu, Judo, BJJ, JJJ, MMA ) where you learn a skill set you can apply to competition, training or the street if necessary.

I know I might be a little bit pissed off if Sensei handed out belts and stripes just for showing up to a certain amount of classes and giving minimal effort. I've been training 2-3 times per week for a year now and am a 2 stripe white belt in Behring Jiu Jitsu. I will be testing soon for yellow belts in Judo and Aiki Jiu Jitsu. Just from reading the different posts it looks like every club has it's own philosophy for grading, none of which are necessarily wrong but good stuff for a discussion.

There is a saying that a green belt in Karate is just enough knowledge to get your head kicked in out on the street. Thoughts??

[ATrain11267]

My Sensei is very careful when handing out belts or stripes. He reasons that there are too many people walking around with black belts that would get their clock cleaned out on the street. We have a dojo in our town that promotes 8 and 9 years old to black belt, which is just wrong, but the parents pay for it. We are first and foremost a self-defence dojo ( incorporating Goju-Ryu, Judo, BJJ, JJJ, MMA ) where you learn a skill set you can apply to competition, training or the street if necessary.

I know I might be a little bit pissed off if Sensei handed out belts and stripes just for showing up to a certain amount of classes and giving minimal effort. I've been training 2-3 times per week for a year now and am a 2 stripe white belt in Behring Jiu Jitsu. I will be testing soon for yellow belts in Judo and Aiki Jiu Jitsu. Just from reading the different posts it looks like every club has it's own philosophy for grading, none of which are necessarily wrong but good stuff for a discussion.

There is a saying that a green belt in Karate is just enough knowledge to get your head kicked in out on the street. Bottom line is that there are some with much less skill then their belt shows and some with far more skill. After all, it's just a piece of cloth. Thoughts??

[ATrain11267]

Oops ^^^^^^ :o :o :o

[fz1]

Is there a class requirement like 2/wk?

Yes bjj is offered 2 times a week, im pretty sure this is new for gracie jj.

[michaelwbray]

I know plenty of black belts in tae kwon do that would get their heads kicked in on the street.

I still think muay thai mixed with jiu jitsu is the best combination for martial arts. Thats a totally different topic though.

With the gradings, I think that the sizes of the classes etc are going to factor in to how that school grades.

If you have 10 students, you'd probably grade as you go along. Once you start getting 80 to 100 students, I think you need a more formal grading system.

Also - some gyms may be affiliated with someone that specifies how the gradings have to work.

[Shonuff]

Personally, I think that rank should be nothing more than a benchmark between you, your teacher and the other students within your school.

I have never bought into the whole "a black belt should have the same value between schools and between arts" mindset.

It is simply a way for an instructor to reward and categorize his pupils.

If I had my way you would do away with the whole belt system all together and go back to the traditional Japanese way of doing things. You either had menkyp kaiden or you didn't. Everyone else was just a student and the only real 'rank' was your seniority at the dojo. Otherwise your name was your rank based on the reputation you had gained as a practitioner of whatever art you were studying.

[cree357]

We seem to have a mixture of above mentioned styles at my school. There is definitely emphasis on regular class attendance but no guarentees from it. We have 3 black belts that teach and as a person gets closer to advancing they are watched much closer when rolling.

I think a good point was made about wins in a tournament. If someone has a strong background in wrestling then they may be able to win some matches using their wrestling and not necessarily jiu-jitsu. If a wrestler gets a takedown and control to win the fight on points but never attempted a sub should he advance for that? He did technically win a jiu jitsu match and didn't get subbed or swept but maybe didn't use any techniques learned in class.

[ATrain11267]

Agreed. It's nice to see when a person progresses beyond straight wrestling and begins to use actual BJJ technique, complete with sweeps, reversals and a nice arsenal of subs. It took me a while to progress beyond wrestling and using subs to where I'm seeing a little more BJJ coming out in my rolling. I don't think mauling a person and getting a half-assed sub should go towards BJJ ranking, IMHO.

Got class tonight. Can't wait!!!

[the viking clan 777]

my old school I feel gave out to many blue belts ,it sucked guys some how got blue belts in like a year who weren't good.I rember I waited two years and some guys that were not as good as me just got belts.I felt this guy wanted to build up his school so he gave out belts to keep guys coming and when we tourney guys got beat up ,no one ever got promoted in unless they were white belts there was like 30guys blue.I felt the guy just wasn't orgnized and he knew I wasn't going to quit my brother trains as much there as I did and he was beter than most and in two years he got 2strips.here's the kiker when we left his school he called us both and told my bro to come down its time to get a new belt and me being a blue he wanted to get me in because he had a big surpise for me!!what a joke

[hudsonh]

I like the system outlined by the TS because it lays out a specific set of skills and goals one has to obtain to advance. People seem to forget that white belt is where one learns all the basics and blue belt is where they start learning to apply them. Leave the subjectivity to the blue belt and higher ranks and leave the objectivity in the white belts.

This has to be the most common sense answer ever. You can't learn how to create beautiful paintings without first learning how to hold the paintbrush, mix the colors, or prep the canvas. Same can hold true for Jiu Jitsu, or any martial art for that matter. It is all an art, and art just like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. This is the subjectivity. But all great artistes had to learn the basics, the fundamentals. The problem I see in most gyms is that a lot of white belts are thrown into the mix. I know I was. I had to learn basic sweeps and passes while rolling with blue belts. My point here is that keeping the objective as a white belt that you should learn all the basic moves and fundamentals first before you start to get fancy with them should be the primary goal. Fundamentals are the key to success in any art.

Man if you read all that I am truly sorry. It wasn't suppose to be that long.

[Ryan]

My Sensei is very careful when handing out belts or stripes. He reasons that there are too many people walking around with black belts that would get their clock cleaned out on the street. We have a dojo in our town that promotes 8 and 9 years old to black belt, which is just wrong, but the parents pay for it. We are first and foremost a self-defence dojo ( incorporating Goju-Ryu, Judo, BJJ, JJJ, MMA ) where you learn a skill set you can apply to competition, training or the street if necessary.

I know I might be a little bit pissed off if Sensei handed out belts and stripes just for showing up to a certain amount of classes and giving minimal effort. I've been training 2-3 times per week for a year now and am a 2 stripe white belt in Behring Jiu Jitsu. I will be testing soon for yellow belts in Judo and Aiki Jiu Jitsu. Just from reading the different posts it looks like every club has it's own philosophy for grading, none of which are necessarily wrong but good stuff for a discussion.

There is a saying that a green belt in Karate is just enough knowledge to get your head kicked in out on the street. Thoughts??


I agree that belts shouldn't be handed out like free samples at a grocery store but to say that you have to be a certain age to have one is really limiting a person and may hinder kids from participating.

Grading someone based on how they would do in a street fight is also not a good idea in my opinion as some people may have excellent skills but have not street smarts. Look at me for instance, I live in a town where fights are 1 on 1 and the friends do not jump in. Now, take my small town mentality and fight customs and go to Tempe Arizona and I will get F*cked up in a bar fight.

[ATrain11267]

I think my point was that so much training and devotion goes into earning a legit black belt ( that's just my observations, I'm nowhere close to one...) that it discredits the martial arts when 8 and 9 year olds run around wearing them. Grading and belts should not have a "cute factor" attached to them, especially with small kids. I just think it's a total insult to the true masters of the arts. There are enough belts to keep kids interested for years before they reach black, and a good instructor shouldn't treat his dojo like a puppy mill, cranking out black belt after black belt.

I wasn't suggesting that a person should have to prove themselves out on the street in order to achieve rank, just that some people think that their reputation as a black belt preceeds them until they get punched square in the mouth and end up on their back. Not to mention, I think it's a perishable skill, where if you don't keep up your training to some degree you lose it.

Just my two cents!!:) :)

[HarryLarry]

Ryan you got a non sequiter going there on the second paragraph so I'm not going to address it. As for the first how about this analogy: I tapped a purple belt with a brabo choke yesterday. Does that mean I get promoted to blue belt and he gets demoted to blue? Of course not and competition isn't even the basis for promotion to blue belt. My school has tournament winners in white belts who didn't even get a stripe out of it. Any white belt with a little wrestling background and a couple subs can go clean the mat at a local tourney and still not even know half of what they should know to make blue. The rules for white belt is learning basic JJ and applying it comes at blue belt and above. I don't even compete or live roll a lot does that mean I'm white belt for life when my technique and detail is more than enough for any blue?
lol @ non sequitur

Ever been to Law School?

[JRT6]

lol @ non sequitur

Ever been to Law School?


Would you believe I got the "verbal advantage" series from the library. It's a hoot.

[the viking clan 777]

there are gyms who will make you a black belt in 4 years "if you train at least 2 days a week " i asked the sensi how many years it took them and a lot were like 8,9 10 years?that doesnt make sense.granted that everybody learns at difrent paces .some compete some dont .you can factor knoledge applied that would get you to rank quiker than a person who doesnt compete. a lot of competers some times rank slower because they want to win lots of tourney.either way most of these gyms make weak fighters who think they are bad in there local gyms and they get creamed in tourneys and whene they visite others gyms