Dealing with Larger Opponents/Training Partners

[sswturtle]

I recently saw a thread on here about dealing with rolling with larger guys. I have been asked this question from a former student too. Thus I thought it merited an entry on my blog.

I hope this helps:

http://timsledd.blogspot.com/2008/07/dealing-with-larger-training-partners.html

Good luck and happy grappling!

Tim

[adonis]

Tim I enjoyed your article. I liked the tips you give. One thing that struck out to me while I was reading the article I thought it was heading to a diffrent route for a minute then the attended reason. When you started talking about fundementals, tightness, timing, strategy. Then later in the article it braught it all back together with tips on dealing with a larger opponent.

I really enjoyed the tips and while I was on your blog I saw the youtube vid on the seminar you gave in Jamica. What I saw was excellent! Good solid basics! It made me wish I was there participating with every one else.

Well any way after reading your article I started thinking about what you said about the 4 areas of focus whilie training, and that perhaps some people just don't have the tools yet to deal effectively with Larger opponents, that its part of the game and not to get to discouraged that in if they focus on those key areas you were talking about in the article they will develop the skills to deal more effectively with the opponets. I know I am stating the obvioius I just wanted to share my thought on it .

Thank you for the excellent article!

[sswturtle]

Adonis,

I am glad you enjoyed the article. As I stated in it, it was a mixture of reviewing one of the chapters in my pedagogy with a response to questions I have been getting recently... that is why the flow is not as smooth as I would like.

Regardless, the blog is to offer some insight and benefit to others. If any article helps one person, then I deam the entire blog a success.

Keep training.

Tim

[CEB]

In cases where the bigger guy has a large size advantage he should not be an asshole. Simply using a size adavantage isn't teaching either guy anything. We have have this big fat kid and I don't think he has ever won much in his life because he wants to win so bad. He gets upset win I beat him. I just play defense until he gases out. I tell him he is working to damn hard, He don't listen.

He brutalizes smaller people if he gets a dominant position. There is not much that upsets me. I pretty much let everything roll off my back. Corry can probably tell you I'm the class clown. But I don't like bullies. I may choke that boy unconscious one of these days if I get the chance.

I have the day off. I think I will go to the day class. I may get to roll with the boy. :D

[Matt "Vicious"]

i weigh 140-145, and when i'm going against a heavier (about 250) less experienced guy he just likes to scarf my neck and sprawl out on me in full mount position. i cant reach his thighs, half guard doesnt help much. and his arms are too big to shrimp out of without using all of my energy.

does anyone have any ideas?

[Dannicus]

Not to take away from the thread, but damn Tim, I never knew you trained with Team Bison...those guys...are strong as hell, and crazy....straight crazy...

OK..back to the thread...carry on..nothing to see here.

[CEB]

i weigh 140-145, and when i'm going against a heavier (about 250) less experienced guy he just likes to scarf my neck and sprawl out on me in full mount position. i cant reach his thighs, half guard doesnt help much. and his arms are too big to shrimp out of without using all of my energy.

does anyone have any ideas?

Rest and relax until he does something. You aint going to get out.

And if the guy is pressing all his weight into you ask him if he likes being an asshole or if he just doesn't realize he has a 100+ pound weight advantage on you. He is not learning anything and neither are you. If he eases his weight and lets you work if maybe you both can get learn something. I have to do this. I weigh around 220. I lose to a lot of smaller guys because let them work and I get a chance to try to work sweeps and stuff.

[TalkShowOnMute]

Take the back, choke, or omoplata and kimura's all day.

The big guys shoulders are not so flexible and that's a small guys best chance. But if you can get the back that is the obvious first choice.

[CEB]

Yes, If he can create the space. But if he is on bottom being effectively pressed with a 100+ pound weight advantage he will gas out trying to make the space. In his scenario he is pinned. Life isn't fair.

[adonis]

Tim, No worries your article was great. Like I said before at the end it braught every thing in the article back together. I actually thought it was fantastic!

As for every one else, I agree it is definetly not fair for those big guys to use there weight. Also those flexibile guys using there flexibility, the nerve of them! Those little guys who use there speed too. People need to play fair! just sayin..... ;-)

In all seriousness I know what you mean about guys who are bigger and heavie 60-100lbs+ However I know guys who are just 20-40lbs heavier who learned to use there weight by playing tight and how to use there body to gain more weight to control an opponet and little guys complain they are heavy and aren't able to move them, and there not using technqiue. Honestly if some one isn't really Huge, I think there is technique in learning to apply ones weight.

[sswturtle]

Not to take away from the thread, but damn Tim, I never knew you trained with Team Bison...those guys...are strong as hell, and crazy....straight crazy...

OK..back to the thread...carry on..nothing to see here.

Oh the Bison Days! Talk about no EGOs, no belts, no excuses! Those guys could care less. The attitude was let's get to training, let's get better, and screw points, let's make them yelp!

I was a brand new blue belt when I started training with them and my best training partner was Sammy Morgan (later of the TUF). He was a fun roll. My students today know a body lock from the closed guard called the "Sammy Squeeze"!.

I had a blast training with them. Since my leaving they have devoted quite a bit to the MMA scene in the twin cities. I imagine I would have had a few moreblack eyes and mat burns if I had not moved away!

[sswturtle]

i weigh 140-145, and when i'm going against a heavier (about 250) less experienced guy he just likes to scarf my neck and sprawl out on me in full mount position. i cant reach his thighs, half guard doesnt help much. and his arms are too big to shrimp out of without using all of my energy.

does anyone have any ideas?

That is a huge size difference. My article trys to encourage guys in such a situation to avoid it at all costs. But, here is my suggestion.

Shrimp your hips away using your free arm to push his back and allow space. Instead of trying to elbow escape to half or full guard, use your outside leg's foot to scoop under and lift allowing your other leg to come under too... then work to set your butterfly hooks and if he still hands on to scarfhold, he is very easily swept. Most will let go and you will then be battling from the guard.

Let me know if this helps.

Tim

[Tango]

First off, thanks, Tim. Your article was an interesting read - I'll try to apply some of your ideas next time I roll with the big guys.

I'm pretty new to JJ, but as a smaller guy (ok, at 162lbs, I'm not that small), I have tried to develop a few strategies in dealing with 200+ lbs opponents.

I know I'll never be as strong as my opponent, so I rely on my other strengths, mainly cardio and flexibility in keeping a pace that will hopefully wear them out while keeping them controlled.

When starting from the knees or standing I try to create scrambles that will result with me gaining top position. I hate getting stuck in side control of a much larger opponent.

From the top or back I find it's really important to use my weight well, so the don't sweep or roll you into side control or mount. For example, shooting the legs back when I feel that I'm being rolled in side control.

If I do get stuck in their side control, I work for half-guard, using that flexibility to create space and get a leg. Next I sneak my legs in to play butterfly or use an open guard (feet on the hips). This helps me use my flexibility to hunt for subs.

These ideas are obviously just one beginner's strategy for dealing with the few larger opponents he's faced. I'm sure more advanced members can add on or tell me where I'm just plain wrong.

[Matt "Vicious"]

That is a huge size difference. My article trys to encourage guys in such a situation to avoid it at all costs. But, here is my suggestion.

Shrimp your hips away using your free arm to push his back and allow space. Instead of trying to elbow escape to half or full guard, use your outside leg's foot to scoop under and lift allowing your other leg to come under too... then work to set your butterfly hooks and if he still hands on to scarfhold, he is very easily swept. Most will let go and you will then be battling from the guard.

Let me know if this helps.

Tim

luckily he wasnt there yesterday. We're still working on showing him how to roll without using his muscle. so i just sparred with a blue belt, but i never thought about trying to butterfly first in that position. so when i tried it on the blue belt he squirmed more so i pulled his head down and it worked. i also figured out how to do the rolling twister for the first time yesterday!

great article too