Real World Application of BJJ

[TalkShowOnMute]

My questions lie among the efficiency and real world application of various BJJ techniques. We've all seen streetfight clips of people using RNC or attempting sloppy armbars or something similar, although mildly disturbing, it begs the question...

"What is economical in a street fight, confrontation, self-defense or any other real world situation where one might be tempted or forced into using learned techniques?"

Assume you can be in any position for conversation's sake, you could be standing in front or behind the person, on the ground under or on top, doesn't matter...what I want to know is what move do you consider to be real world efficient and something you could imagine going to as a solution to the altercation or whatever you want to call it....

Assuming we are dealing with a SINGLE attacker.


Just to start with an idea..take the RNC....

Great move, hard to escape, leaves adversary unconscious or unable to fight (atleast temporarily). BUT....

Is it a deadlocked move? A safe move even? Standing, without a proper base or readiness your could be flipped over top or the guy could jump and slam you backwards, on concrete, could be a fight ender and a bad night for you...but also the RNC to me is particularly worrisome in that you have both hands busy performing the move while the chokee has both arms free...to punch backwards, grab, reach in a pocket quickly for a knife or ball point pen to gouge you in the face/eye? A tight RNC can put someone to sleep in under 10 seconds, but sometimes it is much longer, maybe even approaching 30 seconds or more, depending on position, the chokee, the technical ability of the choker.

I personally would only feel safe in a super-tight RNC on the ground with atleast one arm trapped in a hook, but this isn't a choice all the time. And I wouldn't necessarily want to be on the pavement with a guy backmounted for long....

Thoughts?

[gooch]

against someone who doesn't practice i think there is a ton of stuff that would be effective, however i would use more jjj than bjj and just break an arm or wrist and just be done with it

[TalkShowOnMute]

against someone who doesn't practice i think there is a ton of stuff that would be effective, however i would use more jjj than bjj and just break an arm or wrist and just be done with it

I guess that is one way to think of it, but then I guess I would ask, what technique would be applied, and what vulnerabilities would be present....again assuming a single attacker....

:)

[gooch]

I guess that is one way to think of it, but then I guess I would ask, what technique would be applied, and what vulnerabilities would be present....again assuming a single attacker....

:)

well i know for certain that a lot of stuff can be used as a friend of mine bounces and uses a lot of it, but off the top of my head:

-a lot of altercations start with grabbing and shoving, a perfect time to take a wrist and break an arm, or just bring them to the ground

-everyone wearing hoodies these days makes collar chokes possible, baseball bat choke is money if you can land it

-rear naked applied properly against someone with no training you should only really need to worry about a slam, a punch shouldn't do much and i doubt they will have presense of mind to do much more

-simple elbow tap to standing triangle is very effective

[virginiamma]

waki gatame... easy to do, safe if you fail, and a fight ender

[the viking clan 777]

a guiten or stokade neck crank RNC.arm locks are hard to pull of and dangerous if you are on like black top its hard if the guy is biting .I feel if you can sofen dude up first with a copel I
of punches or some hard leg kicks take dude down work from the top.bottom is good if your ground is tight I would prefer to be on top raining punches down go for a sub thene

[Ryan]

In a single attacker setting with no friends around I think almost anything is ok to use in a fight as long as you know how to use it well.

You should probably take into account the environment you are in and determine if you have room to do something.

About the pen, knife and such..... a fighter can use those things when punching, kicking or doing JJ.

[LongV]

I think single leg takedowns are safer to pull off on an attacker. Double leg takedown can be done, but I think 9/10 attackers go for a guillotine when they are taken down by a double leg. Unless you are really good with double leg takedowns, go for it. Usually guys that end up on bottom fling their arms around so armlocks (kimura, americana) and arm triangle are there to apply. I also have a vale tudo sense, which means I'll pretty much do anything to stay alive.

Now if you're Marcelo Garcia, I would pull X-guard. :D

[michaelwbray]

Learning about positional dominance and transitioning between positions is where I think BJJ would help in a street fight. You aren't going to pull guard and try for a triangle.

In a street fight the ideal position for me would be knee ride (knee on belly it's also commonly called). I can land effective strikes, but i can stand up quickly if nessecary. If I knock him out, I can quickly slap on an arm bar on him while he's out as a bit of a "fuck you" to him.

[SGR]

If this is just a passing thought don't sweat it, your training will serve you well in self defence. Your analysis of the strengths and weakness of the RNC shows your not clueless.

Hypotheticals just go round and round til your head explodes.
Fact is, if your unfortunate enough to be attacked the iniative is with the attacker and you've just got to react from where you find yourself, whether it suits your game plan/prefered technique or not.

If this more than random thought and street survival is on your mind more often, then train for it. Drill self defence like you would your ground game. Trained reaction is more valuable than mental chess in real time.
I'm sure someone on here could hook you up with a good JJJ school or something similar.
Just my opinion,
Stu

[Matt "Vicious"]

i just went to a kajukenpo seminar the other day by one of the deadliest people in ky. we raised this question and what I found most effective and easiest was to let them make the first swing, intercept it with a block and a face elbow, then back of the head elbow while you kick their groin and kamura then step over and tear their shoulder apart. and since it lasts 3 seconds to do its great for multiple attackers.

as for the ground i would avoid RNC and do a rolling armbar or triangle so i could control his arms to avoid the suprise weapon attacks.

[TalkShowOnMute]

Learning about positional dominance and transitioning between positions is where I think BJJ would help in a street fight. You aren't going to pull guard and try for a triangle.

In a street fight the ideal position for me would be knee ride (knee on belly it's also commonly called). I can land effective strikes, but i can stand up quickly if nessecary. If I knock him out, I can quickly slap on an arm bar on him while he's out as a bit of a "fuck you" to him.

I'm with you on positional dominance, ability to slide into side control or mount, or take the back is critical, and should be doable on an untrained opponent. I've always felt that choking them out is the humane way, but at the same time leaves some openings, if you could throw a jab, shoot a double as he swings wildly.

Than all you have to do is manage through all his shots to your head as you are taking him down and mounting, then you are somewhat homefree,assuming your mount is good, you could soften him with punches or elbows from the top and if he rolls face down you could potentially put him to sleep.

Although I don't street fight or condone/like it, as a martial artist, one can't help but sometimes envisioning these things..playing scenarios out...etc.

[TalkShowOnMute]

If this is just a passing thought don't sweat it, your training will serve you well in self defence. Your analysis of the strengths and weakness of the RNC shows your not clueless.

Hypotheticals just go round and round til your head explodes.
Fact is, if your unfortunate enough to be attacked the iniative is with the attacker and you've just got to react from where you find yourself, whether it suits your game plan/prefered technique or not.

If this more than random thought and street survival is on your mind more often, then train for it. Drill self defence like you would your ground game. Trained reaction is more valuable than mental chess in real time.
I'm sure someone on here could hook you up with a good JJJ school or something similar.
Just my opinion,
Stu

I understand. I guess as training goes on untested(besides on the mats) one can't help but wonder if the all the techniques they learn, could one use them when it counts? Sure, I can triangle and mount my training partners, but can I do it when an angry person is contfronting me, or better yet charging towards me.

As a blue belt, I feel like I would have some technical advantages on the ground with an untrained person, but could I pull it all off on an opponent intent on hurting me, going 100%, and with all the adrenaline present.

So for me to dumb it down this way, for myself,and think, what moves are really economical? Not just for my safety and the finish but what can realistically be pulled off in the heat of the moment that can end this fight?

[BadKarmaRising]

Discussions about self defense always make my head explode.

Repelling a violent assualt isn't a schoolyard fight situation. Treating it like one, or worse, training others to treat is that way makes me bark at the moon nutty.

[Forkfoot]

The best way to use BJJ in self-defense is to sneak up on your attacker before he even sees you and RNC him.

[Ghosted3]

Single attacker, I would personally look to clinch and land a hard throw (onto something if possible IE curb, bench, chairs ect). Most likely you would at least knock the wind out of them if not break some ribs.

[Ghosted3]

The best way to use BJJ in self-defense is to sneak up on your attacker before he even sees you and RNC him.

If they dont see you then how are they "your attacker"? Wouldnt that make you the attacker? ;) Sorry I couldnt resist.

[Forkfoot]

If they dont see you then how are they "your attacker"? Wouldnt that make you the attacker? ;) Sorry I couldnt resist.

Best defense is a good offense. Nothing stops a suspicious-looking character like a good preemptive choke.

[younwha]

I'm not sure I would be too interested in putting someone in a triangle choke on the street... bar fight, ok, but someone really out to harm you - chances are they'll do anything to hurt you, and that includes biting a chunk out of your inner thigh lol

Best to stick with controlling your opponent while staying on the feet, on the ground you get tangled, close together, you can't see what all his hands are doing, next thing you know you have a knife in you.

I prefer the run away self defense

[JayC]

I prefer the run away self defense

If only that worked in BJJ competition :D

[Jaden_Korr]

I've been through this a few times when i had a *very* limited understanding of bjj. And becaused my luck loes to shit on me,it's only been against a single opponent once

Usualy I've gone with countering a punch into a keylock or hear-am triangle and a heel planted in the back of the knee. The head-arm works well here against multiple opponents since you can slam and release the hold,then roll to take down the next guy.

Now,I'd rather try to talk my way out of a fight,but if I need to I'll try and end it quickly.

Kris

[naturalbornfighter1]

i have studied a lot of reality self-defence systemss
over the years.
this is what i believe,
action is faster than reaction, therefore if you feel threatened enough by someone it would be logical to make the first move.
depending on the level of danger in the situaton e.g. weapons etc. then strike vital points with a lack of muscle coverage - eyes, ears, groin, throat, shins
get away from the situation asap!

if you are caught unaware and you do end up grappling it would be advantageous to keep it standing. i realise its assuming a single attacker but in most cases wolves hunt in packs and there's bound to be someone ready to jump in and help them so its not ideal to be on the ground.

with adrenaline going fine motor skills diminish, for example, have you ever tried opening your door when your bursting for the toilet and cant get the key in the lock the first time? so the bigger the movement you are trying to perform the better.
the more intricate movements are ill advised.

personally if i got into a grappling situation i would use the RNC or try a fast,solid takedown like a slamming action then get away fast

[MMAtt]

The mental side of understanding a martial art shouldn't be underestimated. Think back to the times when you knew nothing about attacking another person and 9 times out of ten your go to move would be 'saturday night special' (big swinging punch).

If an attacker was to throw something like that at you now i am pretty sure he'd be in a whole world of trouble and it wouldn't take long for him to panic that he's picked on a guy who knows what he's doing.

In my little experience of street fighting i have only ever had to defend myself well, warn the guy that he's fucking with the wrong person and the fight ends.

Use your attacker's mind against him is kinda what i'm saying you just need to show dominance and a deeper understanding of a fight situation to panic your assailant.

[the viking clan 777]

I would not recomend a sucker punch,if you get off quick a string of punches that works .if seen guys go for it and miss and iv had guys try and miss or try and I see it coming and slip the punch and counter

[gooch]

Use your attacker's mind against him is kinda what i'm saying you just need to show dominance and a deeper understanding of a fight situation to panic your assailant.

i ran into a situation like this a few years back and the guy asked me if i wanted to step outside and settle things, i told him in a very calm matter that i would "love to" because i really liked fighting and hoped he had more than a pedestrian knowledge of the sport so he could make it challenging. he kept talking after that for a while and i assured him i bore him no ill will and would be happy to have a beer with him back inside after i kicked his ass, i left him with no doubt that it was him that was going to lose the altercation even though he had about 30 lbs on me

we never ended up going outside and instead sat and drank beer and have become decent friends, a fight you don't have to engage in is a winning fight imo

[SGR]

I understand. I guess as training goes on untested(besides on the mats) one can't help but wonder if the all the techniques they learn, could one use them when it counts? Sure, I can triangle and mount my training partners, but can I do it when an angry person is contfronting me, or better yet charging towards me.

As a blue belt, I feel like I would have some technical advantages on the ground with an untrained person, but could I pull it all off on an opponent intent on hurting me, going 100%, and with all the adrenaline present.

So for me to dumb it down this way, for myself,and think, what moves are really economical? Not just for my safety and the finish but what can realistically be pulled off in the heat of the moment that can end this fight?

Upon re-reading my original post I realise it sounds like i've misunderstood your question and even reads slightly condescending. I apologise as this was never my intention.
What I was trying to suggest was, to use your own example, have a training partner charge at you throwing punchs and see what works for you from there.
If we agree that your grappling may offer you some advantage over an untrained attacker perhaps different exercises could do the same in different areas.
I'm not sure any of us ever answer the "could I do it if the time came" question to our own satisfaction; there's just too many variables.At best we surmize from our past experiences.
Training will never be more than simulation, but it's the best vehicle to explore what is economical for us as individuals.
Hope I made more sense this time.
Respectfully,
Stu

[visi0n]

what..no flying triangles?

[Shonuff]

There is a huge portion of the BJJ syllabus that basically gets thrown out the window when strikes are integrated into the picture... that should be obvious to anyone who has ever been in a real fight. That being said, to address the OPs question I would have to say that for me, I would consider the Darce and the Arm Triangle to be the safest possible subs.

The Darce from knees is superior to the guillotine in my opinion in a fight simply due to the fact that one arm is partially immobilized and the free arm is going to be hard pressed to generate and real power for strikes or make it's way to tender areas for gouges.

The Arm Triangle is probably the safest possible sub I can think of... if done properly you are almost 100% safe from any strikes, grabs, gouges, etc...

The other thing I like about the two of these for actual fighting is the fact that they are incredibly easy to disengage from and regain your feet if they are not getting you the desired results.

[BadKarmaRising]

There is a huge portion of the BJJ syllabus that basically gets thrown out the window when strikes are integrated into the picture... that should be obvious to anyone who has ever been in a real fight. That being said, to address the OPs question I would have to say that for me, I would consider the Darce and the Arm Triangle to be the safest possible subs.

The Darce from knees is superior to the guillotine in my opinion in a fight simply due to the fact that one arm is partially immobilized and the free arm is going to be hard pressed to generate and real power for strikes or make it's way to tender areas for gouges.

The Arm Triangle is probably the safest possible sub I can think of... if done properly you are almost 100% safe from any strikes, grabs, gouges, etc...

The other thing I like about the two of these for actual fighting is the fact that they are incredibly easy to disengage from and regain your feet if they are not getting you the desired results.

I may be doing them wrong, but how do they protect me from my assailant bringing weapons to bear or from his buddies who are certainly nearby?

[Shonuff]

I may be doing them wrong, but how do they protect me from my assailant bringing weapons to bear or from his buddies who are certainly nearby?


I am pretty sure the OP stated in bold "Assuming we are dealing with a SINGLE attacker"...

But regardless, one of the reasons I mentioned the ease of disengaging and regaining the feet is that I think that is the most important thing should their be additional people involved. Being caught in a tangle of limbs when someone jumps in is a very, very bad thing.

As far as weapons go, that is always a danger but out of all the subs I can think of these two are pretty solid when you add that variable into the mix... with the Darce you have the visibilty to see if his free hand reaches for a weapon and with the arm triangle, even if he has something in the other hand he should not be able to generate any power with it.

[west]

Check out The traditional JJJ Technics...All are proven by the Samurai on the Battle field.
I have trained in Juko Ryu Ju Jitsu/Gung Fu for 6 Years and I feel that the most important part of one on one fighting is not to have any Pre concieved thoughts of your actions. As soon as you put thought in the way,I feel you cannot rely on your own Mental Body Reaction to do what you have Trained to do. Thats the whole reason why we Rep, so that we can do the moves without thinking (Like tying laces..ref E.B.). So i could'nt name the move/hold/Strike that i would use in a one on one situation as i don't know what will come out. But something WILL come out.

Don't Think ..... Feeeel !


My 2p Worth!

[Ari Bolden]

Real world violence and fighting are so much different than the MMA and BJJ. Even John Hackleman touches upon this in my interview with him.

I bet dollars to donuts that if Chuck Liddell was in a street fight, his stuff would look a lot different (this assumes of course he hasn't knocked you out with the very first punch).

I find it so difficult to answer questions like these because no one fight is the same and no technique is proven 100% effective. I've been bashed, beaten and fought a lot over the years. Not because I want to but because of the nature of my job. It has been the single most important thing to my martial art journey-EXPERIENCE, as nothing teaches you better.

A real fight is so much different than a grappling match (or even a MMA fight) that when it starts to go down, you better be in the right MIND set for it. Hesitation kills. Getting kicked in the head sucks.

Aliveness training really does help but not very many schools do it. The biggest advice I can impart is this: Be one step ahead of the other guy. Be prepared to strike first. Get to learn PRE CURSORS to violent behavior (body language). Create space. Scan the surrounds. Look for potential weapons. Stay on your feet. Nothing is off limits (ball shots and eye gouges??!! That's for pussies! While you are thinking that- the other guy won using those same techniques).

Perception is the NUMBER ONE tool in your tool box when it comes to fighting. Remember, the fight is 'on' way before the first fists fly.

Like all door guys I know who have been in the business for a few years-paranoia is your best friend-and worst enemy.

[BJJGaidin]

Hey Ari - I'm sure I'm not the only one that might like to know, but being a bouncer, can you give us a list of some of those "pre-cursors" to fighting?

I'm sure a lot of it is instinctual to you now, but if you can, it'd be great to know.


Thanks!

[Tom Gavrilos]

If its a real "street fight" no mercy.
I would take mount and pound. First let person wear themselves out trying to push you off. This isn't MMA people will turn over and you dont need to take any choke. You can continue to strike the spine and back of the head headbutt etc....


RNC is pretty damn effective but when I was councing at the bar I would make 2 fists when sunk because Ive had someone yank my finger and almost break it before.

Just my .02 cents

[CEB]

I think you have all seen this before.

I BELIEVE this is where I found the link to this article to begin with but just in case here it is.

http://www.asylum.com/2008/03/06/chuck-liddells-bar-fighting-tips-1-dont-do-it-but/

[Ari Bolden]

Hey Ari - I'm sure I'm not the only one that might like to know, but being a bouncer, can you give us a list of some of those "pre-cursors" to fighting?

Thanks!

Nick:
From my book Headlocks and Haymakers:

Your Awareness

‘The first step toward change is awareness. The second step is acceptance’.

- Nathaniel Branden

(Canadian psychologist, expert in the area of self-esteem)

The first tool that any person should hone is their awareness. Being able to spot trouble before it starts is so important. While I happen to be in a job that constantly has me scanning and noticing trouble and pre-cursors to violent behavior, you can sharpen your skills just the same. The majority of the time, a person who wants to pick a fight with you, will send an invitation first. These invitations come in several forms:

1)They bump into you for no apparent reason.
2)They ask for the time, change or directions.
3)They puff up and begin to act verbally aggressive (swearing or calling you out).

Always be aware wherever you are. Look for people you don’t know staring at you and giving you the eye (the evil eye not flirting). You are less likely to be attacked if you carry yourself with confidence (not cockiness). Most fighters want to win and are not looking for a fight (where THEY might get hurt).


Is He Ready to Attack?

‘Pain is inevitable; Suffering is optional’.

- ‘Explosive Fight Wear’ motto

Ask any reality-based combat specialist and they’ll all say the same thing with regards to violent confrontation. The vast majority of the time, you will be able to read signs - both verbal and non-verbal - that tell you that an attack is on its way. You just have to train yourself to notice the signs.

One such specialist is Darren Laur (http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/), who has written fifty articles on combat-related material. In one such article - ‘Street 101’ - Mr. Laur describes the pre-cursors to violent behavior. I have reprinted them here for you to study:

‘Assault Not Imminent But Possible’:
- Head, neck, shoulders go back (person making themselves look bigger)
-Face is red, twitching, jerking
-Lips pushed forward, baring teeth (you see the same things in dogs before attack)
-Breathing is fast and shallow (oxygenating the body, preparing for ‘fight or flight’, hyper vigilance)
-Beads of sweat appear about the face and neck
-‘Thousand-mile glare’
-Exaggerated movements
-Finger pointing/ head pecking
-Totally ignores you
-Gives you excessive attention during normal conversation, such as direct, uninterrupted eye contact
-Goes from totally un-cooperative to totally cooperative (people do not go from hot to cold, they de-escalate over time)
-Acts stoned or drunk
-Directs anger towards other inanimate items such as tables, chairs, walls

If you find yourself confronted by a subject presenting these signs, awareness/self-protection strategies should go up, and distance should be created. Your body language should be assertive, but not threatening and don’t be afraid to allow the person to vent verbally.

‘Assault Is Imminent’:
- Face goes from red to white (during a physical confrontation the blood will leave the surface of the body and pool to the big muscles and internal organs of the body needed for survival). In my job as a police officer I see this all the time and when I do, one of two things is going to happen: the suspect is either going to fight or run.
-Lips tighten over teeth
-Breathing is fast and deep
-Change of stance, their body blades and shoulder drops
-Hands closed into a fist (not uncommon to see the whites of knuckles due to hands being so tight)
-Bobbing up and down or rocking back and forth on feet (this is the body’s way to hide/ mask the initial movement of a first strike)
-Target glance (here you will see your opponent look to where he is going to hit, or where he is going to run/escape)
-Putting head and shin down (body wants to protect the airway, this action does so to a degree)
-Eyebrows brought forward into a frown (again the body wants to naturally protect the visual system, this action does so to a degree)
-Stops all movements/ freezes in place
-Dropping center or lowering of body (no different than a cat or dog getting ready to pounce)
-Shedding clothes (very common, you will see your attacker take his hat, coat, shirt or bag off just prior to the assault)
-One syllable replies (go from full sentences to one syllable replies - reptilian brain is clicking in)

With this group of signs, you have about 1 to 1.5 seconds to act before your attacker either strikes or runs. If walking and talking your way out is inappropriate or unreasonable, then I teach “First Strike” philosophy and continue on with a compound attack until your attacker is no longer a threat.
In both the ‘Assault Not Imminent’ and ‘Assault Imminent’ phases, I often teach my students (in some situations) to bring to the attention of the attacker what they are seeing and why:
1)The attacker may not know what they are doing. A lot of these signs are automatic in nature, meaning they happen without conscious thought.
2)More importantly, most attackers will only attack you if they believe they have the element of surprise. By sharing with them what you see, you take this primary tactic away from them.

IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU SHOULD NOT LET THE PERSON KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SEEING, THUS USING THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE TO YOUR ADVANTAGE!!!!!!!!!


Never, ever, let someone get within striking distance of you. Keep them at arms length at all times and let them know not to advance

[BadKarmaRising]

hey, is that Nathaniel Branden quote the same Nathaniel Branden who was protege and lover of Ayn Rand?

[Tom Gavrilos]

I think this is turning more into an any style SD argument than a
"Real World Application of BJJ "

[Ari Bolden]

Maybe so Tom but just like REAL fighting-adapt or die :). Whatever works.

On that note, if I get a RNC, I hold on until they are out back against a wall and move on from there.

[Ghosted3]

RNC is pretty damn effective but when I was councing at the bar I would make 2 fists when sunk because Ive had someone yank my finger and almost break it before.

Our instructor teaches that in our self defense class for mainly that purpose.

[Ghosted3]

This is one of the reasons I am married and dont go to bars and may "social" places. I dont have to worry about these kinds of things as much as people who do.

[Ari Bolden]

http://www.submissions101.com/chokes5.htm

(and to imagine that the BJJ police said that you shouldn't make a fist...hmmm other instructors teaching this very same thing???!!! No, couldn't be!!!)

Wow-they must know everything!

A fist is a GOOD idea and as Tom said, I've had guys try to pull the fingers as well.

[CEB]

Pull my finger. :D

[Ghosted3]

Pull my finger. :D

You sir, are not allowed at the Taco Bell near class!

[michaelwbray]

6 years experience working in pubs, I can tell you, you never know what to expect in a fight. Things I have seen

* Pool balls in a sock being used as a weapon (very deadly)
* Stabbing with a pen
* Bloke being smashed in the head with a brick that was just outside the pub
* Glassings
* Stools being used as weapons
* Pool cues used as weapons
* Head stomps on the ground

and much much more. Never be afraid to throw the first punch. Never let your guard down.

[Tom Gavrilos]

6 years experience working in pubs, I can tell you, you never know what to expect in a fight. Things I have seen

* Pool balls in a sock being used as a weapon (very deadly)
* Stabbing with a pen
* Bloke being smashed in the head with a brick that was just outside the pub
* Glassings
* Stools being used as weapons
* Pool cues used as weapons
* Head stomps on the ground

and much much more. Never be afraid to throw the first punch. Never let your guard down.

Thats because Aussies are CRAZY! Your whole Country was an ocean doc for Britishcriminals right?:D

I agree. Best not to fight at all at clubs. Again this is a BJJ in street fight thread. So only BJJ style moves apply right.... :)

Too many guns knives and nuts out there. Best to use your head...

[michaelwbray]

Started off as a bunch of convicts, but we've managed to turn it into the best country in the world :) I descended from Irish convicts that came out here in the first fleet of criminals.

Back on topic though: I maintain that most submission holds won't help too much in a street fight. Learning a bit about positioning and a few chokes is all that is going to help you.

I still maintain that you can't beat a mixture of Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to help prepare you for a street fight.

[Ryan]

Started off as a bunch of convicts, but we've managed to turn it into the best country in the world :) I descended from Irish convicts that came out here in the first fleet of criminals.

Back on topic though: I maintain that most submission holds won't help too much in a street fight. Learning a bit about positioning and a few chokes is all that is going to help you.

I still maintain that you can't beat a mixture of Muay Thai kickboxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to help prepare you for a street fight.


Agreed! MT and BJJ are about the best. I like Krav Maga too

[TalkShowOnMute]

Thanks alot. I really appreciate your guys opinions and serious replies, as a martial artist real world application really piques my interest, otherwise I feel like I am living in a world of theoreticals.

These are in no way terrible brawls but use of some BJJ for sure..

Say's BJJ streetfight, but that is a HUGE overstatement.....

However we see the see the use of control(some, not much) and mount.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zS-4QA9z00

Ralek with horrible standup as a white or blue belt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctZieUW-Rp0

[Shonuff]

This is one of the reasons I am married and dont go to bars and may "social" places. I dont have to worry about these kinds of things as much as people who do.

I am married and my wife and I go clubbing all the time... I haven't been in a fight in a club for almost 12 years or so. (Almost got into one a couple of years ago but the guy backed down)

The key is paying attention to the environment... I can honestly say that 95% of the time a fight happens at a club I pointed out to my wife or friends that it was going to happen at least 10 minutes before it did. Hell last time we saw one I called it a solid half hour before it happened.

People are so obvious.

[CEB]

6 years experience working in pubs, I can tell you, you never know what to expect in a fight. Things I have seen

* Pool balls in a sock being used as a weapon (very deadly)
* Stabbing with a pen
* Bloke being smashed in the head with a brick that was just outside the pub
* Glassings
* Stools being used as weapons
* Pool cues used as weapons
* Head stomps on the ground

and much much more. Never be afraid to throw the first punch. Never let your guard down.

You are from the same country that gave us Chopper Reid.

[michaelwbray]

:) "Chopper" is still one of my favourite movies. Eric Bana plays Chopper Reid in it, based on a true story. If you haven't seen it, go watch it.

[younwha]

Thanks alot. I really appreciate your guys opinions and serious replies, as a martial artist real world application really piques my interest, otherwise I feel like I am living in a world of theoreticals.

These are in no way terrible brawls but use of some BJJ for sure..

Say's BJJ streetfight, but that is a HUGE overstatement.....

However we see the see the use of control(some, not much) and mount.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zS-4QA9z00

Ralek with horrible standup as a white or blue belt...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctZieUW-Rp0


Not to be a jerk or anything but those were not street fights lol those were some idiots in backyards who thought they can fight. Granted that's how most people fight, very scrappy.

A good street fighter hits you in the throat, the balls, takes out your legs
and they almost always have friends... sadly I know this from experience... twice lol first time I thought I picked a fight with one guy... turns out he had six friends around the corner, I was in the hospital for three days. Second time the guys friend had a baseball bat... 2 broken ribs ... the best fights i've been in are the ones where either I or him runs away.

[Cravin]

Hello again. might be a little off topic, but say i was forced to fight and use my bjj, is there any legal consequences if the meat head doesn't tap, out of pride or arrogance, and i break a limb?

Also, if someone doesn't respect the tap and continues to attack after I've released them and the 2nd time i lock a choke and they tap do i trust them and let go or put them to sleep for my safety?

[Matt "Vicious"]

~from my understanding~ in *KY* you are allowed to do +1 to your attacker. That is to say if he tries to stab you, you can stab him with it and then elbow his face. (thus +1). Or if he hits you, you can break his arm.

my kajukenpo instructor, who bounced at one of the roughest bars here, who i will visit annually from now on 'basically' said to choke them out if they try to tap because he sees too often people stand back up and "throw a brick at the back of your head." they'll eventually wake up with a really bad headache.

*note this is from my understanding of what he said. He also knows a few kajukenpo blackbelts that went too far and are in jail.

[younwha]

Hello again. might be a little off topic, but say i was forced to fight and use my bjj, is there any legal consequences if the meat head doesn't tap, out of pride or arrogance, and i break a limb?

Also, if someone doesn't respect the tap and continues to attack after I've released them and the 2nd time i lock a choke and they tap do i trust them and let go or put them to sleep for my safety?

As we learn in our self defense class... the question has come up numerous times. Just use common sense. A) Why did you let go the first time when he tapped? This isn't MMA or BJJ this is real life. B) Put that bitch to sleep and run away so there will be no legal consequences cuz he'll wake up dazed and confused lol

[Ari Bolden]

To be honest, I am sick of hearing about " I'll do this" or "I'll mount him and do that." or " I do MMA man!"

Welcome to my world and REAL street violence. It isn't pretty... not by a long shot!

Always other people involved. Always includes cheap shots.....always...Remember, keep your head when everyone else around you is loosing theirs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcXm1tesvWo

[Ryan]

Cool vid. I cringed when that guy came up behind the bouncer with a flying knee. Crazy!

What do you do when you are purely outnumbered.... including your team and the guys are just too tough?

[Forkfoot]

Hello again. might be a little off topic, but say i was forced to fight and use my bjj, is there any legal consequences if the meat head doesn't tap, out of pride or arrogance, and i break a limb?

Also, if someone doesn't respect the tap and continues to attack after I've released them and the 2nd time i lock a choke and they tap do i trust them and let go or put them to sleep for my safety?

Ha! I just spat coffee all over my monitor. Why would they tap, dude? Either forget about joint locks altogether or rip that thing off and run.

[TalkShowOnMute]

I just plan to Karate all my attackers, with karate...to their faces.

[gooch]

What do you do when you are purely outnumbered.... including your team and the guys are just too tough?

[mr. miyagi]Crane technique, if do right, no can beat[/mr. miyagi]

[Lefty]

if i get an arm i will break it wether they tap or not (shouldnt have assaulted me), that way at least the fight will be a little more even if he decides to continue with one arm.

[gooch]

What do you do when you are purely outnumbered.... including your team and the guys are just too tough?

serious note though, i think ari trains aikido also, which does train for multiple attackers and how to defend against, lots of time using one of the attackers as a shield or a weapon

we use to pratice it in karate, if you do practice it it gets easier and you can really eliminate a lot of the advantage of numbers

[Matt "Vicious"]

starting to get a baby mouse. *even with everyone's different opinions in styles and tactics, no one can argue the fact that sparring is the best way to prepare against attackers. So far this week i've learned to not get punched in the face. I'm thinking next week will be a review...

[gooch]

starting to get a baby mouse. *even with everyone's different opinions in styles and tactics, no one can argue the fact that sparring is the best way to prepare against attackers. So far this week i've learned to not get punched in the face. I'm thinking next week will be a review...

you need to spar with "fear" for this to be true though

[mattamatta]

you need to spar with "fear" for this to be true though

I should help my friends spar with fear by attacking them violently against their will when they don't expect it >=D