Rubber Guard effectiveness in MMA

[Tallsilkyslim]

After limited research, i have yet to see anyone submit their opponent using the rubber guard in professional MMA. I believe this is for two reasons. The students of the rubber guard game are still too new to understand the nuances, and the other is obvious. How many of Eddie's top students compete in the pro ranks? None that i am aware of. And the ones that have fought professionally i.e. Jason Chambers, i don't recall him submitting anyone with the rubber guard.

I am just curious as to why no one is submitting their opponents with the Rubber Guard?

I have seen it be effective at controlling but not submission.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Preston

[cuzz63]

I am just curious as to why no one is submitting their opponents with the Rubber Guard?

I have seen it be effective at controlling but not submission.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Preston



My thought is that you wont see is since RG isnt a submission technique. Ever see anybody subbed with the closed guard or butterfly guard?

[Tallsilkyslim]

My thought is that you wont see is since RG isnt a submission technique. Ever see anybody subbed with the closed guard or butterfly guard?

What i am referring to is a submission that is attempted while in rubber guard. I hope everyone else can see that.

The rubber guard sets up the submission and i personally haven't seen a completed submission from rubber guard in Pro MMA.

Hope that makes more sense.

[Ari Bolden]

Because its MMA.

Most of the RG work has been done to break an opponent down and keep them there while punching and elbowing them in the face. Seems people use it to keep a guy broken down and punish him. Why risk the submission if you can throw 20 punches and wear them down?

And for the record, Vinny pulled off an arm bar with RG on the TUF show.

[Tallsilkyslim]

Because its MMA.

Most of the RG work has been done to break an opponent down and keep them there while punching and elbowing them in the face. Seems people use it to keep a guy broken down and punish him. Why risk the submission if you can throw 20 punches and wear them down?

And for the record, Vinny pulled off an arm bar with RG on the TUF show.
Just for the record, I am in no way bashing the system. I was just looking for examples of its use in MMA as an effective way to lock on a submission. I am not sufficient enough at it to work a submission in MMA yet. I guess my point is that until there are guys proficient enough at it fighting in the cage, we won't see it's true colors. My last fight was a good example. I kept him broken down but couldn't set up a submission. I don't think that the Rubber Guard failed me, i just feel i am not good enough to make it work to the point of mastery yet. And on that note i don't think i am alone.

[arm85z]

it will happen i just dont think the people who are trying it know the system well enough, most people who you see pull rubber guard are people who haven't trained in the system but pull it almost as a last resort and dont kow or forget the finer details.

Im sure you have heard Joe Rogan say over and over he isn't hugging the knee, it's not until you have people who have studied the system enough to know and remember when under pressure that you will see submissions coming from it.

[Tallsilkyslim]

it will happen i just dont think the people who are trying it know the system well enough, most people who you see pull rubber guard are people who haven't trained in the system but pull it almost as a last resort and dont kow or forget the finer details.

Im sure you have heard Joe Rogan say over and over he isn't hugging the knee, it's not until you have people who have studied the system enough to know and remember when under pressure that you will see submissions coming from it.

+1. My thoughts exactly

[rocknroll]

whats with aoki isnt he gogoplataing people all the time ? ^^

[MatzeOne]

whats with aoki isnt he gogoplataing people all the time ? ^^

Maybe he's not a pro athlete. :D :rolleyes:

#1 Only the UFC is considered a pro MMA organization

j/k



But yeah. Aoki is a good example.

Although I watch some fights I prefer training, so I don't have any other examples right now. To me it doesn't matter, because I have faith in the system and I'm looking forward to train in a few hours again to drill some 10th planet jiu jitsu.

[Tallsilkyslim]

Maybe he's not a pro athlete. :D :rolleyes:

#1 Only the UFC is considered a pro MMA organization

j/k



But yeah. Aoki is a good example.

Although I watch some fights I prefer training, so I don't have any other examples right now. To me it doesn't matter, because I have faith in the system and I'm looking forward to train in a few hours again to drill some 10th planet jiu jitsu.

I would love a link to these fights that people are getting submissions with the rubber guard set up. It matters to me because i want the 10th planet game to get as much respect as it deserves.

Background story:

My buddy i have been rolling with for many years asked me if anyone has been submitted in Pro MMA with a submission set up from rubber guard. I didn't have any specific examples and was looking for some. Pro is Pro, it doesn't mean just the UFC.

For anyone else, if they have any examples then a link to the vid would be nice. I never said that it has never happened. I only said i didn't know any specific examples.

[Ari Bolden]

Just for the record, I am in no way bashing the system. I was just looking for examples of its use in MMA as an effective way to lock on a submission. I am not sufficient enough at it to work a submission in MMA yet. I guess my point is that until there are guys proficient enough at it fighting in the cage, we won't see it's true colors. My last fight was a good example. I kept him broken down but couldn't set up a submission. I don't think that the Rubber Guard failed me, i just feel i am not good enough to make it work to the point of mastery yet. And on that note i don't think i am alone.


I know you are not bashing the system and I don't think the RG is the end all be all either. You've gotta keep your perspective about things after all. Its a good question and to be honest, I don't think the happy medium has been found yet by merging 10thP and MMA yet. As the style is tested in the cage, it will become more and more obvious what works and what doesn't.

I can use my 10thP jits all day long in jj matches but when punches are being thrown, much of the stuff has to be thrown out the window. just my 2 cents.

[Shonuff]

Slim, I can't find the links now... but any of Dustin Hazelett's fights should work for you.

[jakem]

jayson day vs alan belcher= belcher gitting held in mission control and getting his dome split by 10 elbows(conservitive i "think" i counted 14 but whatever).dont rember exactly but i think he was stopped due to strikes.

everything takes time to be realized,absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Ari Bolden]

I think you are looking for this picture ;-)

[Tallsilkyslim]

I am not questioning it's effectiveness in controlling your opponent. There are many examples of it's effectiveness in MMA to control your opponent.

I just haven't seen anyone get taps with the Rubber Guard set up in MMA. I explained earlier why i believe this is the case. I love the Rubber Guard. I have a 10th planet tattoo for crying out loud. I simply wish that people were hitting subs from RG in MMA. It would help to shush the haters i.e. my buddy that asked me this question to begin with.

[Matt "Vicious"]

from a first hand experience practicing in my cage i'd have to say it breaks them down better than full guard and i can keep them them there but their adrenalin is keeping me from letting go of the wizzer to try submissions. maybe it's just the weight advantage they have on me.

--ps go comment my videos? pls?

[Ari Bolden]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0Dng5MqfI

[jakem]

i know you a fan of rg.

this is just my usual argument to people.

and imo being held in rg and rained on and getting a tko is a win for rg in my book.

as far as a sub. i think this happened about the time the bell rang for the round,now if day would have had the time to "finish" and the ref stop it,or better yet belcher tap from strikes,would that have satisfied the masses?

or is that not a sub, just a question

[CEB]

Maybe getting beat up and laying on your back isn't a good place to be. Maybe the hierachy of positional dominance was correct. I don't know anything about MMA but the guard always seemed to be be what we always called an 'Oh Crap!" move. Oh crap what do I do now! .... Pull him in my guard . :D

[jakem]

Maybe getting beat up and laying on your back isn't a good place to be. Maybe the hierachy of positional dominance was correct. I don't know anything about MMA but the guard always seemed to be be what we always called an 'Oh Crap!" move. Oh crap what do I do now! .... Pull him in my guard . :D

this is also a very valid point.

thats why its a better guard imho,eddie took "the worst" position and made it better.thats what i think it boils down to.

everyone was scared of royce off his back till everyone learned to defeat that,then he was getting pounded ala mat hughes.when the right talent comes along that knows the system,then it will shine.but like all things it too might fade to something.somebody might come out with ninja guard or some shit and wreck everything on the planet:D

[CEB]

this is also a very valid point.

thats why its a better guard imho,eddie took "the worst" position and made it better.thats what i think it boils down to.

everyone was scared of royce off his back till everyone learned to defeat that,then he was getting pounded ala mat hughes.when the right talent comes along that knows the system,then it will shine.but like all things it too might fade to something.somebody might come out with ninja guard or some shit and wreck everything on the planet:D

This is just me and I don't know anything but .... I think it is a great testament to Jiu Jitsu that guys can still pull off subs from time to time with someone who is actually trained in this fight science on top of them trying to beat their head in. It is hard enough to do that in straight up Jiu Jitsu.

[Ari Bolden]

Being on the ground is the worse possible place to be in a real fight. That is why many of the old samurai arts focused on weapons, throws, vital points and dominating a fallen opponent from a standing or kneeling position (suwari waza).

BUT-know how to fight off your back and in bad positions is vital for survival (and bloody fun to practice in its sports form!).

[jakem]

i absolutly agree

[forrestang]

So part of the curriculum @ my gym is the typical GB 'self defense' portion of the class.....

How do you guys train for application of jiu-jitsu for real fighting situations?

[Tallsilkyslim]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0Dng5MqfI

Thanks Ari. I will use this as an example for sure. And against top talent too..........nice.

[JayC]

I think Aoki is a bad example to use. He obviously has magical powers in those pants! Unfair advantage, imo!

[jakem]

"note to self-jayc knows too much":D

[JayC]

You can never know too much! Especially when it comes to magic pants :D

[zaxonortesus]

Yeah, Aoki is a bad example, he's so flexibile, he once caught himself in a gogoplata.

[Ari Bolden]

Aioki's pants are so magical that there was discussion on adopting them as the official flag for Gay Pride and getting rid of the standard rainbow one.

[michaelwbray]

Imagine the destruction if Chuck Norris tried on Aoki's pants...

[jakem]

oh dear god noooo:eek: :eek:

[virginiamma]

Imagine the destruction if Chuck Norris tried on Aoki's pants...

I'd rather not think of a pantless Aoki.

[jakem]

I'd rather not think of a pantless Aoki.

says the man with no pants:p

[virginiamma]

says the man with no pants:p

..You'll never know..

[BadKarmaRising]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0Dng5MqfI

Tights stolen from Erik Paulson
Instead of red and blue tape on the gloves they used pink and powder blue.

I'm starting to wonder if calling it "Pride" has a double meaning!

Great clip though!

It do very much hate when announcers don't know what the hell they're looking at though. And I'm not talking about the RG clinic he put on. Gogoplata is not some new or obscure technique. Don't call it a triangle choke!

[zaxonortesus]

Oh god, If Aoki can gogoplata himself... would Chuck Norris be able to roundhouse himself in the head? I think it would create a black hole and we would all cease to exist... That goes to show the effectiveness of the rubber guard.