Balancing Newbie Training

[Roundhead]

Hi,

Thought I would lump my annoying questions into one general post about training. Hope this is the right board for this.

I am paid up for two classes a week, for now, until I figure out whether or not it is worth paying for open membership. I have already had my classes this week, doing two hours on Monday night, and 90 minutes Tuesday lunchtime. This latter class was awesome, just me and two other guys, both of whom are really good and really helpful, plus sensei. Needless to say yesterday (Wednesday) I could barely move, but today I feel better, although I still can't sneeze (every time I need to I get half way through before a bolt of pain flashes from my core and knocks me off my chair) which is annoying. So my first question is should I go training tonight, or wait until all aches and pains have subsided and go on Saturday. I have a slightly obsessive personality that leads me to think that if I don't go tonight I will forget what little I have learned so far! How many sessions are optimum in a week for a beginner?

Secondly, I keep getting outmuscled in sparring. I expect it from the bigger experienced guys, but on Monday I was totally overpowered by this guy having his first lesson (it was my fourth), and found myself pinned for the whole time. This worries me, because at a fairly lean 195lbs I'm not that small, and this guy was smaller than me. I have very long limbs, and have always struggled to get strong. Should I be spending more time working on strength when away from the mat? If so how should I balance that with my training at the club?

Finally, at what stage can I start playing around with some of the 10thpjj ideas? I am really keen to integrate it into my training, but not to the detriment of what I am learning at the club. Also (really last question), are my orangutan-like arms and stupidly long legs ever going to be an advantage?! At the moment they just seem to get in the way, and I get totally steamrolled by people who are more compact in their build.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Liam

[zaxonortesus]

From baby white belt to a bit older white belt, I train 2x a week right now and it did me good for a long time. I am looking into steping it up a bit now because I feel my body coming back to form much quicker.

Are you sure you are being out muscled? Could it be you are being out momentumed? Especially if you have long arms/legs like me, I found myself getting pushed over quite easily because I played tall and once my weight got past a certain point, it was a matter of momentum bringing me down. Just try to keep your limbs pulled in more, STAY HEAVY on your opponent, and keep loose, you will find you're much more stable that way. If you want to work on strength, remember that strength isn't universal. I work on more explosive strength than absolute strength. I don't care how much I can bench, I just want to get the weight up as fast as possible, then control it down as slow as possible. You won't ever really need to squat your opponent, but having explosive leg strength will come in handy in the scramble. If you need a few ideas as to what you can do, just hit me up, I have a handful of exercises that I do that help with explosive training.

For working in 10P stuff, do it now. Why not? Especially in a free roll situation, it is a great time to just play with stuff and see what works for you or not. I have never had a 10P class or seminar, but if I find myself in half guard, I go for the lockdown/whip up/sweep straight away. Same with mount, I go for gangsta lean straight away as well. I am a bigger guy (6'3", 230, 77 inch reach) so if I am sitting up and mounted, I get bucked around very easily, get heavy go for gansta lean and stay more secure in the dominant position. Good luck and stick with it, you will find your style and what works best for you.

[CEB]

..... So my first question is should I go training tonight, or wait until all aches and pains have subsided and go on Saturday.
If I didn't go to class everytime I had an ache or pain I would NEVER go. Go your body will adjust. You are taxing new sets of muscles. You are young. You will be fine.



.... How many sessions are optimum in a week for a beginner? Depends. You have to balance work - education - and family. A lot of people who training like crazy get burned out and quit.



Secondly, I keep getting outmuscled in sparring. .....
Out muscled or out leveraged or both?


Should I be spending more time working on strength when away from the mat? If so how should I balance that with my training at the club? It won't help like you think. You need Jiu Jitsu lessons and practice if you want to improve your Jiu Jitsu. Greatly increasing your strength won't help at all right you now. It will help you later however.



Finally, at what stage can I start playing around with some of the 10thpjj ideas? You have only been going to class for 2 weeks. You do not know the Gracie Barra stuff you are trying to learn. I would work on what you have instruction in. Anything you do right now that is not what your club is teaching will be done at the determent to what your club teaches. You have to learn how to control your body and manage the informational overload you are faced with. Life is a time allocation problem. We rob Peter to pay Paul in EVERYTHING we do. Not just Jiu Jitsu.



Also (really last question), are my orangutan-like arms and stupidly long legs ever going to be an advantage?! .....
Yes. You will learn to control your body and your limbs will be a big advantage.

This is only your 2nd or 3rd week. Don't worry about winning it gets in the way.

[outlawz]

Everything everybody has said makes a TON of sense..... If it was that guys 1st class you probably DID get outmuscled.... cause that is all that guy knows.... After 6 months of rolling if another first timer comes in and tries steamrolling you you will laugh and tear him up. I'm only 165 and I dieted down to that weight from JJ and weights/cardio/diet and now i'm maintaining it.... I LOVE it when some guy who's 190-205 comes in for their first class with a healthy disregard for energy conservation, positioning and leverage, and balance.... You will sweep, submit, and out pace him. Using a ton of energy and strength is NOT the right idea.... You'll get that with time.... Stick to what your school is teaching you and test out 10thPJJ stuff during open mat or with a training partner. Start with basic 1/2 guard stuff like the lockdown, whip up, and old school, electric chair..... Then open yourself up to more stuff.....

I guarantee in 6 months you'll look back on this post and we'll all giggle a bit... good luck and keep training if you're sore. work thru the pain. I was still rolling with a cracked rib, ears flared out to the walls, and a knee that had popped a week prior trying to pull guard on a big ass wrestler....

[Roundhead]

I guarantee in 6 months you'll look back on this post and we'll all giggle a bit...

Haha, I hope you are right, and cheers for the uplifting post! Thanks to everyone for your advice. It's the thought that there will come a day where I don't suck quite as badly that keeps me going!

[Ryan]

Just to make sure you don't end up on the sideline for 6 months I want to clarify something Ed said...... there is a difference between hurt and injured. If you are injured by all means, don't go but DO get checked out. If you are hurt however you should go and work through it. You know your body by now..... injuries and hurt are 2 different things and that should dictate whether you go or not.

I am glad you are open minded but until you get a good solid base I would just stick to what your instructor is teaching. The moves look simple but applying them is difficult when your opponent is resisting and you are still thinking through the moves.

I am a wrestler and I still had trouble with BJJ. I had to adapt my wrestling so I didn't become a BJJ statistic by getting guillotined with every shot. Take your time and find out what kind of strategies work for you.

[CEB]

... If it was that guys 1st class you probably DID get outmuscled.... cause that is all that guy knows....

Here is my caveat. You have no control over what the other guy knows. If you are getting out 'muscled' , especially by a smaller guy it is probably because you have no base. It is about leverage and base. Not muscle. But that is just my opinion.

[Dannicus]

It's going to take a while. Don't be frustrated. Those guys who are dominating you have put in the time. You haven't yet. The first months of your jiu jitsu is you tapping....alot. It's ok. Learn from it. What did they do to make you tap? Watch your body position, work on escapes. You are going to be very defensive for a while. That's ok, the defense is what makes the art so awesome for self defense. Once you get that down, it will start getting to be more and more fun.

Learn to breath. Many new guys feel weak not because they are, but because they are burning themselves out trying to muscle through everything. Slow down, breath, and take time to learn about your body positioning with your opponent.

Good Luck

[mrmnjewel]

Yes. It takes a long time and it has many frustrating moments. But, I absolutely love it. I got started last May and am still very much a newbie. I am usually both the oldest (almost 40) and smallest (150ish) guy in the class. I am still getting tapped about 95% of the time, but I am finding that it is taking the bigger, more experienced guys a lot longer to submit me. I actually consider that to be a small victory of sort, as well as a sign that my technique is improving.

I remember the first time I submitted someone. I was rolling with a "newer" newbie than me and had him in my guard. He fell into perfect position for an arm triangle. I slipped it on him and squeezed, thinking "finally". I felt those three little taps and let go. I kept a calm exterior but internally I was doing cartwheels. I've pulled off a couple of other submissions since then (collar choke and occasional armbar), but the first one is still vivid.

[cuzz63]

Last night one of the new guys rolled with me and made the comment how much better he felt about his progress since I only tapped him 2x in the 5 minutes, I didnt have the heart to tell him I chose not to tap him, I was working on positions not taps...hahaha.

[Tallsilkyslim]

I wouldn't consider myself a noob, but when i roll i generally go in with a goal in mind. I don't just think "tap him out no matter what, go go go"

Usually i will think to myself, "Ok. I will pull guard and work that spot. As soon as it is passed i will work the lockdown to a sweep."

If i can get to this point i score myself a moral victory. Don't look at rolling like a competition. Look at it as an opportunity to improve certain parts of your game, against a live resisting opponent.

[Roundhead]

The problems I had in my first class derived from the fact that I had no idea what I was trying to achieve. In my second session I was more upfront about that and so I was taught the scoring positions, and things got a little easier insomuchas I actually had a goal. Not that it ever worked out! Having read Stephan Kesting's Roadmap For BJJ, I am trying to learn a sweep or escape from every position that I can try and work on whenever I roll, which has made things slightly more focussed too.

[ATrain11267]

Saulo Ribeiro's theory is that white belts (or beginners for no gi) should focus on defense and survival while rolling with more experienced players. It is unrealistic to think that you will catch experienced people with sweeps and subs when you haven't put the time in on on the mats. My greatest "victories" so far have been surviving against far superior opponents, not catching the "new guy" in a sub.

It will come, just be willing to learn and absorb everything around you. It sounds like you are on the right track. As Preston stated it isn't a bad idea to have a specific goal every time you train, for example: "tonight I will not have anyone take my back". It doesn't matter if you get mounted and subbed 100 times that night, if nobody took your back then it was successful. There can be victory in defeat, it all depends on a persons ability to take ego out of the picture.

Have fun and keep us updated!!

[AJ]

Finally, at what stage can I start playing around with some of the 10thpjj ideas? I am really keen to integrate it into my training, but not to the detriment of what I am learning at the club. Also (really last question), are my orangutan-like arms and stupidly long legs ever going to be an advantage?! At the moment they just seem to get in the way, and I get totally steamrolled by people who are more compact in their build.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Liam


I struggled with this idea as well. I loved all the rubber guard stuff I was reading about however I didn't want to undermine the structured basics that we were learning in class. So I told this concern to my instructor; he basically told me that since I'm more flexible then his other guys that I should definitely exploit that since most of them are stronger than myself.

Since then I have been openly using rubber guard and I'm doing a lot better. Even my closed guard has gotten better and more dynamic from it all, since now my guard is a rapidly shifting dynamic guard that alternates between different phases of open, closed, and rubber guards, depending on what my opponent is doing.

It basically opened more options and didn't diminish anything from my standard guard game.

Oh, and long ass limbs allow you to do some weirder variations off of rubber guard, that others cannot do.

[Roundhead]

Oh, and long ass limbs allow you to do some weirder variations off of rubber guard, that others cannot do.

This is one of the things that attracted me to it, it looks like something that will be to my advantage in the future.

I have another newbie question- when do I start training takedowns? Everything I have done so far has been started from the knees, which is fine, and I was advised not to cross train at the judo or wrestling clubs I have around me until I had at least a year of BJJ under my belt, so I am just curious as to when I might start training takedowns. Not trying to run before I can walk, just curious.

[CEB]

You are Gracie Barra right? I would think you would be training some takedowns in the self-defense portion of the white belt syllabus. As a white belt we usually did one stand up technique a week. Not all schools follow the program though.

Question: When you start from the knees do you mean that literally? I did this some at first and quickly found being on the knees very unstable and not effective for me.

Now I usually lead with one foot forward with that knee in front of my chest. The other foot is back by my arse. It is more stable and I can move better from here. I can pull a guard easily or I try to do a snap down and take the back or do a spin behind. But on 2 knees all I do is get tipped over and pinned.

I did a bad job of describing that. Maybe someone can do better. Watch Eddie Bravo butt scoot. That is the type of position I am talking about.

[Roundhead]

You are Gracie Barra right? I would think you would be training some takedowns in the self-defense portion of the white belt syllabus. As a white belt we usually did one stand up technique a week. Not all schools follow the program though.

Question: When you start from the knees do you mean that literally? I did this some at first and quickly found being on the knees very unstable and not effective for me.

Now I usually lead with one foot forward with that knee in front of my chest. The other foot is back by my arse. It is more stable and I can move better from here. I can pull a guard easily or I try to do a snap down and take the back or do a spin behind. But on 2 knees all I do is get tipped over and pinned.

I did a bad job of describing that. Maybe someone can do better. Watch Eddie Bravo butt scoot. That is the type of position I am talking about.

Yeah I am at a Gracie Barra. I'm not sure if there is a syllabus, definitely not one that I am aware of. I just do what everyone else does up to the point where it gets too complicated, at which point I keep drilling the earlier, simpler stuff. Its been three weeks now and I haven't seen anyone doing any takedowns, although the sessions are graded by intensity and I have only been to three "open" sessions. I was expressly told not to do one day a week of judo though, which was my original plan, and out of respect I am doing as advised. I sort of assumed the same would apply to my local freestyle wrestling club (which is a shame, wrestling is hard to find in the UK).

As for the rest of your post, thanks so much for that! It is something I have been wondering about, I do seem to get pushed over and pinned very easily, or get my guard passed. I will dig up those vids asap!

[AJ]

I have another newbie question- when do I start training takedowns? Everything I have done so far has been started from the knees, which is fine, and I was advised not to cross train at the judo or wrestling clubs I have around me until I had at least a year of BJJ under my belt, so I am just curious as to when I might start training takedowns. Not trying to run before I can walk, just curious.

No disrespect towards your gym but I definitely do not feel that takedowns are a case of running before walking. Ironically, in a self defense situation it is probably the other way around.

My gym trains thoroughly with Judo sweeps the first day, and I've learned wrestling takedowns from some of the wrestlers that train there. Personally, if you can take somebody down and land in side control or mount, that would be far more preferable than just falling into or pulling closed guard.

That's just my take on it though.

[CEB]

We do also. But we start the 0-2 stripe white belts doing mostly specifity training for their live training.

Something that sort of bugs me is if I throw someone and land straight in side control. I get 2 points for the take down. But if I throw someone and can not avoid their guard but then pass the guard I get 2 points for the takedown and 3 points for the guard pass which is 5 points.

I think I should get at least 5 points for throwing someone and immediately getting into dominant postion by avoiding their legs. But that is just me.

[JayC]

We do also. But we start the 0-2 stripe white belts doing mostly specifity training for their live training.

Something that sort of bugs me is if I throw someone and land straight in side control. I get 2 points for the take down. But if I throw someone and can not avoid their guard but then pass the guard I get 2 points for the takedown and 3 points for the guard pass which is 5 points.

I think I should get at least 5 points for throwing someone and immediately getting into dominant postion by avoiding their legs. But that is just me.

That doesn't make sense if those are the rules! If someone in tournaments I have been to throws someone and lands in side control, thats immediately seen as a takedown AND a pass and they get 5 points. Surely that should happen?

[CEB]

I would think that should be the rules also. But my understanding from the way Marcos explained it to me is you only get the 3 points if you actually pass the legs. Maybe didn't understand something right.

[Roundhead]

Hmmm. Maybe shouldn't have been so quick to assume the ban on judo applied to wrestling too then?

[AJ]

Having read Stephan Kesting's Roadmap For BJJ, I am trying to learn a sweep or escape from every position that I can try and work on whenever I roll, which has made things slightly more focussed too.


I recommend drafting up your own road map or flow chart for yourself. I drew one up for myself and realized how weak my closed guard game is.

Besides that though, you can kind of create your own ideal flow chart consisting of moves that you prefer or want to learn. It feels like you're creating a Dungeons and Dragons character.

Then when you're done you just drill and learn the moves in the chart one by one... I even note my success rate with a submission/sweep during live rolling in order to track what I need to work on more.

Fun to do when you're bored.

[Smitaay]

Roundhead (lol, what a cool name),

I just now read all of this thread and thought I'd reply.

I know what you mean about not really knowing what your goal is in your first sessions. I was like that, as well. There were 2 main instructors in the gym I was working at. One of them (my best friend since 4th grade) would let me work on him, and point out things that I was doing wrong and what I should be doing. The other one (who, literally, turned out to be a psycopath, lol) would just get full mount on me, and squash me. I was like "wtf, dude, what am I learning from this?"

What really got me progressing was studying on my own. If you've got the inclination, there's 4 books I'd recommend you'd get. (I found all of these books I'm gonna recommend at my local Barnes and Noble, and I know that Amazon has them.)

The first one is Saulo Ribeiro's (another poster mentioned Saulo) Jiu Jitsu University. In Saulo's book, he first of all teaches you how to survive from every position. And by survive, I mean that the guys who've been doing Jiu Jitsu for years will have a time getting through this. You won't submit them, but you'll frustrate the heck out of them. haha I lasted 5 times as long against the head instructor when I started using Saulo's techniques than I ever had, before. He had told me to get that book, and he was like "See, I told you it worked." Saulo then moves on to other things, and explains them very, very well. It's all Gi grappling, but, of course, a lot applies to NoGi, as well. If there's only one book you buy, this is the one I would get.

I would also get both of the 10th Planet books; Mastering the Rubber Guard and Mastering the Twister. Except for the complete attempt to get the entire world smokin' weed of the first 50 pages of each book, they are fantastic. (Don't flame me, fellas, Eddie is a pothead and obviously proud of it, lol) Anyway, as far as his Jiu Jitsu, I think Eddie is a genius. He gives you a complete NoGi game for just about whatever your opponent throws at you. It's pretty impressive.

The last book I'd get is Karo Parisyan's Judo for Mixed Martial Arts. It's for your takedowns that you were asking about. That's a very impressive book, as well. I would also secretly take those Judo classes you were talking about. Just my opinion, though. haha If you've got the dough to take Judo and Jiu Jitsu, do it. I can't see how it would possibly be detrimental to your game to take Judo, I can only see how it'd help.

Anyway, what helped me the most was getting those books and then working out what I wanted to use in my game from them. From every possible position, I wrote down what I would try from that position. For example, if I'm on the bottom with someone in side control on top of me, I go for the 25 Cent and The Flo, which is on pages 250 and 252 of Mastering the Rubber Guard. If I'm on top in side control, I go for 7 different submissions that are a combination of different techniques that are in each of the books. If I can't get any of those submissions, I'll go North/South or transition to Twister Side Control and work from there on the submissions I have listed. I have the submission listed, what book it's in, and what page. I don't have every possible technique listed, just the one's that I would try and seemed to flow into each other. This gave me a definite goal for whatever position I ended up in when I was rolling, and gave me a way to organize all of this information that was thrown at me in class. It definitely caused my game to take off, and I couldn't more highly recommend you doing something similar for your own game.

Anyway, once I got everything down that I wanted to use, and got it somewhat memorized, I was definitely more comfortable rolling, and no one ran through me, any more. There are only 2 guys in my gym, now, that I haven't tapped. One is the cool instructor (the other instructor is in jail, now, I think, or should be, haha), and one other guy who is just a monster. He's bigger than me, stronger than me, and knows more Jiu Jitsu than me, other than that, I think I can take him. lol

Anyway, that's what I'd do if I were you. Learn the techniques that you want to use from each position, study them at home, drill them during your classes, and go kick some butt. Good luck, buddy!

[Dannicus]

While I would agree, that all those books are fantastic. I would caution you against trying to study more than you are ready for. When you just start out, you are going to be taking alot of punishment. You can't expect to be Marcelo Garcia your first time out. For now, I would wait on the books. Just keep going to class. Listen, drill, and soak in as much as you can.

I always subscribed to the theory, that after a couple weeks, you should know some of your big mistakes. Make an effort to choose one mistake for each class, or week. And vow to stop making that mistake.

For a while, you're going to feel miserable, like this stuff isn't working. But just wait, after a few months, someone new will come in, and you will make them look as silly as the guys in your gym make you look now. I'd give up the extra studies for a short while, until you get comfortable with your bjj training wheels. Once you start grasping the basics, then I think it would be alright to branch out.

Just some food for thought.

[Roundhead]

Cheers guys I appreciate your thoughts. I have found the beginners roadmap I mentioned before really useful, so perhaps a little reading wouldn't hurt, although I am wary of getting myself mixed up with what I am being taught! Would you really recommend doing judo anyway? I think having been expressly advised against it I will stay away. Might do some wrestling a bit further down the line.

[Smitaay]

Yeah, if you don't feel right taking the Judo classes, that's cool.

The big reason I get books is because I just think it accelerates your learning process in a major way. For instance, say you go to class 3 times a week. I don't get to go that often because I work the night shift at a power plant, and my kids have sports activities at night, but even 3 times a week isn't really much if you think about it.

Say you learn 2 or 3 techniques a night. That's 9 a week at best. That's if you remember them all perfectly and decide to put every one of them in your game. That's 36 techniques a month, if there is no repetition. Now, you've learned 36 techniques in a month, and spent a lot of time going "I wonder what I should do in this situation?" lol

In one week with a book, you could easily learn and get a real good idea of 36 techniques that you know you definitely want in your game, as well as get to drill the crap out of them in a real situation when you go roll at the gym. That's 4 times as fast, and you can review them since you've got the book there with you instead of trying to remember something that you were shown nearly a month ago.

Now, I've heard different time frames from White to Blue Belt and such, but whatever time frame you use, cutting it down to 1/4 of that time is definitely a plus in my book. And if you stretch it out to getting Black Belt, then you're taking years and years and years off of that time.

As far as getting mixed up with what you are taught, that shouldn't be a big deal. I'm the only guy who uses 10th Planet at my gym, for the most part. It's an RGDA gym, too, so I'm kinda steppin' on toes using a system who's claim to fame is that it's inventor tapped out our Black Belt's instructor. You know, though, Jiu Jitsu is, or was, about using what works. That's why it got famous. The Gracies went against convention and said "We're going to do what works, not what's fancy or pretty or whatever." Well, the 10th Planet system works, and so does RGDA. And when you put them together, you've got a good game. I don't think that anyone at your gym is gonna give you a ration if you tap them with something they haven't taught you. I hope not, anyway. haha

The bottom line for me, at least, is that I hate to lose. And even worse than that, I hate not knowing what I'm supposed to be doing. If I know I'm supposed to escape from a position using a certain technique, and I just can't get 'er done, I'm fine with that, but if I'm like "wtf am I supposed to do here?" Well, that's a different story. So I get the books. Later, bud. Good luck.

[Mr_Armbreaker]

I agree with some of the other guys in here. It takes time and patience. Once you have some of the techniques ingrained in muscle memory it is easier and faster to apply it and surprise opponents.
Mike

[slideyfoot]

Books, DVDs and all other instructional material should only ever be supplemental to what you're learning in class. Hence it often becomes a distraction for beginners: you need to understand what you're paying to learn first. Once you've got a grasp of the fundamentals and have had a decent amount of mat time in a reputable school, you can start trying to refine those basics with supplemental material.

Personally, I would stay away from Eddie Bravo material (unless you happen to train at a 10th Planet JJ school) until at least blue belt, if not later, but I think I'm probably in the minority on this particular forum.

The main book I'd recommend for beginners is Mastering Jujitsu (my full review here (http://slideyfoot.blogspot.com/2008/07/book-review-mastering-jujitsu-renzo.html)), as that presents a thorough historical (though history is always contentious: I've got my own summary here (http://slideyfoot.blogspot.com/1982/06/history-of-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-bjj.html)) and theoretical summary rather than overwhelming you with technique. I've not picked up my copy of Saulo's book yet, but I'm told that is also excellent.

[CEB]

I like books and DVDs even if they do nothing for my actual Jiu Jitsu. If nothing else I think outside media like that helps feed enthusiasm for Jiu Jitsu. Enthusiasm can help a lot sometimes. :D

[slideyfoot]

I like books and DVDs even if they do nothing for my actual Jiu Jitsu. If nothing else I think outside media like that helps feed enthusiasm for Jiu Jitsu. Enthusiasm can help a lot sometimes. :D

Absolutely: I'm only talking about instrutional books and DVDs in the above post. Loads of great historical and community-related material for BJJ and grappling, such as podcasts (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pVFOoxMQ3nIsOAPprAG23Tg&gid=1) and the following books, to name but a few:

The Gracie Way (http://slideyfoot.blogspot.com/2008/08/book-review-gracie-way-kid-peligro.html)
The Pyjama Game (http://slideyfoot.blogspot.com/2008/06/book-review-pyjama-game-mark-law.html)
The Last Wrestlers (http://slideyfoot.blogspot.com/2009/01/book-review-last-wrestlers-marcus.html)
Angry White Pyjamas (http://slideyfoot.blogspot.com/2008/01/still-ill.html)

[AJ]

I love the supplemental material. A lot of the guys at my gym are just stronger and downright better than me. Years of highschool wrestling has its benefits for them and since we are training at the same rate "catching up" isn't a reasonable notion. So, the only way I can beat them is by digging up some unorthodox stuff that they don't know. I'm a book worm and in many ways I see that as my strength against them.

[slideyfoot]

Isince we are training at the same rate "catching up" isn't a reasonable notion. So, the only way I can beat them is by digging up some unorthodox stuff that they don't know. I'm a book worm and in many ways I see that as my strength against them.

To each their own, but for me, training in class isn't about 'beating' people, its about learning technique, then practicing and developing that technique during sparring. 'Winning' and 'losing' are unhelpful concepts outside of competition.

I don't view BJJ as some kind of arms race where I need to get one up on my training partners. I'd rather worry about my own progress than focus on everybody elses: if they are able to negate my technique, that's brilliant, because then I know exactly what I need to work on. Better still, they're in a great position to tell me specifically where I'm going wrong.

[Dannicus]

I don't view BJJ as some kind of arms race where I need to get one up on my training partners. I'd rather worry about my own progress than focus on everybody elses: if they are able to negate my technique, that's brilliant, because then I know exactly what I need to work on. Better still, they're in a great position to tell me specifically where I'm going wrong.

That, sums up my feelings exactly.... Slidey is once again being quoted for the truth!

+1......million.....

[Roundhead]

I love the supplemental material. A lot of the guys at my gym are just stronger and downright better than me. Years of highschool wrestling has its benefits for them and since we are training at the same rate "catching up" isn't a reasonable notion. So, the only way I can beat them is by digging up some unorthodox stuff that they don't know. I'm a book worm and in many ways I see that as my strength against them.

While I can see what Slidey is saying, I am also a bit of a bookworm. Would we agree that this is a legitimate strength that can be used in BJJ?

I've not been on here for a while, so for a quick update- I am still getting roundly mullahed by all and sundry. It is very hard to believe that it will get better sometimes! But I keep the faith...

[Dannicus]

While I can see what Slidey is saying, I am also a bit of a bookworm. Would we agree that this is a legitimate strength that can be used in BJJ?

I've not been on here for a while, so for a quick update- I am still getting roundly mullahed by all and sundry. It is very hard to believe that it will get better sometimes! But I keep the faith...

I'm telling you, just be patient. You're going to have to take your lumps for a while. It's part of being the new guy in brazilian jiu jitsu. A few months from now, some other new guy is going to come in, and you will tool him around the mats.

All I would point out, is to be careful not to let what you look at, and study in books get in the way of what your instructor is trying to teach you. Your lessons from your teacher should be the first and foremost thing you work on.

[AJ]

To each their own, but for me, training in class isn't about 'beating' people, its about learning technique, then practicing and developing that technique during sparring. 'Winning' and 'losing' are unhelpful concepts outside of competition.

I don't view BJJ as some kind of arms race where I need to get one up on my training partners. I'd rather worry about my own progress than focus on everybody elses: if they are able to negate my technique, that's brilliant, because then I know exactly what I need to work on. Better still, they're in a great position to tell me specifically where I'm going wrong.

Oh, I don't care about winning. It's all about developing myself as a grappler and finding what works for me. Whether it's poker, evolution, or jiu jitsu I am always looking for material to read and learn. I regard that quirk as an aspect of my style.

Also, I don't work on 10th planet stuff during the training session. I pay too much to not learn what my instructor has to teach me. Outside of class though, I'm digging for moves to fill in holes in my game... which is what got me here in the first place, developing my half guard.