I guess I missed some drama at Jits class yesterday...

[outlawz]

THis might be a long post... read it at your discretion....

I missed jits class last night for like the first time in at least 4 months or so.... (other than times I was TDY and wasn't in the country)... My kid was really sick so i took the day off of work and had to miss out on the class...

Well I guess when I was gone an argument ensued between two of the "instructors"..... Since our class is more of like a club and we don't pay for it we just regard our purple belt (13 yrs of experience in Gracie JJ) and our blue belt (learned in japan has about 4 yrs of experience) as our primary instructors. I occasionally teach some rubber guard techniques but i keep it the very simple stuff I have down (half guard, whip up, lockdown, mission control, new york...) I DO NOT teach stuff i'm still learning myself....

Okay here's a little personality breakdown of the purple and blue....

I'll call this dude Purple from now on so as not to let on names... Okay so Purple is an interesting guy... 38 not married, no kids.... he's a good 280 lbs. not very athletic as he's pretty damn large/fat... but SUPER technical and nasty on the mats... but lets just say leverage is helping his technique against smaller dudes cause he can put his weight behind everything. But taking nothing away from him cause even if he was my weight he would still destroy me.. just not as fast... :D Okay "purple" is ALL ABOUT Gracie JJ... anything against the norm is not worth it... No options, it's all just black and white to him. "If opponent does this, then you do this".... no need for options.... he doesn't address the fact that if you are super flexible it gives you another dimension to attack with.... If a gracie didn't teach it it ain't worth learning.... He has helped me a good amount but anytime I want to try to see if a technique can be improved upon or used to fit my "style" he just rolls his eyes.... But again I repeat that foundationally he has been an immense help.... shrimping, escapes, hip movement, transitions, etc have all benefitted from him.. He also told Caio Terra who is a world champion Gi and No Gi grappler that I was "One of the better guys on the mats in our group".. It meant alot coming from purple... but for me being a hardheaded 10th planet supporter it's tough for me to just give up and follow blindly into his ONE WAY THE GRACIE WAY mindset.... I think being a mixture of technique using my strengths and not getting weakness exploited is the way to go.....

Okay now onto Blue.... Blue is another very technical grapper. Purple can tap him. Purple is the only one that taps him. I can hold my own with blue as of late but cannot really get into position to tap him. I've been getting closer which i use to gauge my improvement. Lately we have been having some stalemates or it takes him a long time to get me in danger or tap me.... So I like rolling with him cause I get to work alot of defense. He's a smaller dude but YOKED up... 185 lbs of muscle and been in the gym his whole life. He isn't a strictly gracie guy. I've showed him techniques from 10th planet and a few of them he's REALLY liked and added to his list of stuff he likes to do... I wouldn't say he'll start using rubber guard but he is very open minded to the system and says that Eddie should be respected simply cause he is a BJJ black belt and he is a pioneer.... It meant alot to me and I've learned alot from Blue as well....

Well blue likes to roll with females when they come in to our "free" class.... sometimes he'll roll with them the whole entire class... The old school guys that have been there awhile just laugh cause we're like "that's just blue".... it's a little inside joke... I'm not there for drama so i could care less.

Well I guess yesterday Purple and Blue had at it in front of everyone. Purple told blue he's disrespectful to the sport of jiujitsu cause he acts all high and mighty. Blue told purple to fuck off and mind his business and if he doesn't like the way blue teaches to not come back.... I don't know what exactly led up to this but purple does tend to talk shit about other blues that he has rolled with and destroys saying that they shoujld basically be able to at least hold him off for a few.... He basically does talk alot of smack behind ppl's back alof of times to me... I try and stay out of it cause I like them both... So blue text messaged me today telling me what happened and I"m starting to see the "weird side" of JJ and what it can do to ppl when one style starts to border on another and one person doesn't think that another person isn't qualified to teach anything and that person thinks otherwise...

Sorry for the long post but has this type of stuff happened at your guys schools?????

[AJ]

We have a handful of wrestlers who will quabble over optimum techniques as well as a few MMA gym or ex-Barra guys who will kind of murmer that a certain technique is dated or problematic. Usually these differences are due to the lack of context under which people were trained and their lack of understanding behind the use of the variation.

Nothing crazy has happened yet but you can defnitely see the potential for an arguement if people don't start putting their egos in check.

[JayC]

Nice read, would love to hear how this progresses!

Nothing like that has ever happened in my gym, all the guys there are open minded and quite a few use whatever works!

[NebS]

Nice read, would love to hear how this progresses!

Nothing like that has ever happened in my gym, all the guys there are open minded and quite a few use whatever works!

Same here at my club, we don't really care if its from another style, if it works and you like it, you use it. If it works and you don't like it, don't use it.

And if you don't like someone, don't work with them, or grow a pair of balls and work with them for a little bit.

Its a fairly mature club considering most of our guys being very young (we even have a 8 year old :eek:)

And I like the rolling with the women too, mainly cause I get to know them and I get to know why they are there, etc. (and heck, if its not too wierd, maybe even a date for later ;))

[007jujitsu]

It still escapes me why people have this 'gracie JJ' or nothing mentality. I mean, the 'sport' is evolving and a ton of people are learning BJJ, so, why not have an edge? I think the reason they're like this is because of that edge, they may consider it cheating but can't do anything about it so they complain about other forms of Jits being (insert negative word of choice here). Eddie has said, yes I have been face to face with him when he's said this, who cares and to study what ever you want. If it improves your game, it's good. So, I see no reason for a feud between BJJ and 10p JJ. I completely lost my train of thought so I'll stop now lol. Let us know what goes down between 'purple' and 'blue'

[Ghosted3]

I cant believe people complain about Gracie vs <insert style here> Why cant it just be closed minded people against open minded people?

[Tagg1080]

hahahaha, dude, welcome to the world of martial arts, as sad as it is, this is a LOT more common than you think...

[007jujitsu]

This kinda stuff happens every day and everywhere though so eh, w/e. Haters will be haters, close minded people will be close minded.

[zaxonortesus]

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

I have never seen anything like that, but I am at a "GJJ or nothing" school. I have heard some people talk shit about 10P and all I have to say back is "you would prolly talk shit about GJJ if you only saw dudes in your gym with no real experience trying the stuff out." Then I point out how there isn't even another person ranked at black besides Eddie, and they usually STFU rather quickly.

These fissures in BJJ really bother me, I don't get why we can't al get along!!! Are we going to be the Catholics or the Protestants?

[Adam]

Lol Typical martial arts bitch fight..We had somthing simalar happen in out club , so bad it forced a split of the dojo.
Mind you , 90 % of the class went wit one instuctor and the other 10% stopped training.
Its was closed minded soul's who stirred the pot, saying things like, "Thats not how they do thing's in Japan".....

[Dannicus]

I have to agree with Corry. Nothing irritates me more than when I hear someone say something to the effect of Fuck the Gracies, the closeminded bastards....

I know this might spark a fire, but I kind of look at it as the same as liberals vs conservatives...(let's face it, BJJ has it's politics too)

I would preface this by saying I know not all liberals think one way, and that not all conservatives think one way. I'm just going off of personal experience. I am a conservative, most of my friends are liberal. I have been shelled time and time again because of my political views by my liberal friends. They say I am closeminded, and bigoted (which couldn't be further from the truth), etc, etc, etc. But when it comes down to it, I believe what I want, and let someone else believe what they want. I'll do my own thing. But my liberal friends can't let me believe what I want. They want to prove to me why I am wrong.

It's the same with the Anti-Gracie people. I understand if you don't like the way the Gracies have talked down other styles or systems of BJJ. But to act like you are better than them when you are just as closeminded about their beliefs as they are of yours is hypocritical, and wrong.

I'm not pointing my finger at anyone in specific, I'm just saying. Those people who point their fingers at Gracie loyalists ought to take a long hard look in the mirror first...

[jasper_milktoast]

heh it has even caused a minor rift on the net. haha, either you defend your art, or don't bother listening.

it is good to see people stay loyal, although sometimes it borders insanity.

[outlawz]

wow.. alot of good views on this topic.... I found out more about what had happened when i was at the gym today working out....

blue was teaching the class a technique and as soon as this female blue belt came in he immediately stopped teaching and went to roll with her for the rest of the class.... This pissed off purple pretty bad and he started teaching for the rest of the class.... what purple didn't know is that this female blue belt who is back doing BJJ from a long time off wanted to drill with blue and blue only.... so he stopped and rolled with her for the rest of class.....

so after class purple called blue over in front of a number of students and basically put the finger out towards him and was like "don't you ever pull any shit like that again" and basically said a few other things like he was talking to blue like blue was a little kid.... blue took great offense to this cause he's a grown man and won't be talked to like that by anyone.... so I see both of their points I guess.... But i'm sure it's going to cause quite a rift in the class....

The continuing drama of "blue" and "purple"...... thank god there is no brown.. we'd be fucked.. :D

[Oneiros]

great read...

I just wanted to say that for every "GJJ only" teacher out there, there is at least one open minded there.... like in everything else...

so dont condemn all GJJ or Gracie Barras...

[Ghosted3]

I am very happy to be affiliated with a school that lets you use what works well for you. I feel that if you bash 1 style or 1 outlook on a style, then you hamper the potential learning curve. There are good things from both, why cant we try to use as much as we can from 10th P and GJJ (BJJ), and strive for a more complete game?

For more info on my claims, please seek out Bruce Lee :D

[Oneiros]

For more info on my claims, please seek out Bruce Lee :D

... would love to but he is quite dead at the moment ;-)

[spud]

Seems to me this is largely caused be egos & lack of communication skills.

In the last instance with the female blue belt the conflict could have been totally avoided if Blue spoke to Purple b4 the class, this may not have occurred. If Purple felt like he needed to object he could have done it then.

If you want another long read see below..

'We had a similar sitation at our club in October 07. We have two styles taught at seperate times 4 nights a week. BJJ & a form of JJJ. The BJJ is my passion so I'll stick with that side of the story (dont sigh Ari, my father is a 6th dan in Kyokushin so I can stand up!).
We had 3 three instructors,all blue belts under John B Will who is a black belt under Rigan Machado. One of our 3 instructors ran the club & was a blue belt well b4 the other two. He'd been in all the mags etc & is quite known & respected in our martial arts community. He was the one who organised seminars etc & communicated with the governing body. He did not see eye to eye with our head instructor & consequently starting arranging seminars with, shall we say 'the other organisation'. At his point (we found out later he also had some personal issues) on an evening when he was to take the class & other 2 wouldnt be there he gave out flyers giving a new address & training times as from the next week!
In short, the other 2 found out, found an alternative place quickly & 70%,mainly the BJJers,as one of them took almost all of the classes followed them. Over the past 15 months we have not quite broken even but our base is slowly growing. We had two guys do well in the nationals last year & slowly now the JJJ side is picking up.

As for the other instructor he to is still going & his numbers are picking up to. He is not doing BJJ there but the guys that do BJJ with us tell me he still does a bit with them.'

Another unfortunate outcome really as the smaller the club the harder to survive financially & we have two.
Add that & we have all lost valuable instructor knowledge with the split.
No obvious winners that I can see. Another example of ego getting in the way of common sense where all could benefit.

It appears that the problem with common sense, is that its not very common...................
________
herbalaire (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/herbalaire/)

[AJ]

Had a guy last night commenting on places where he used to train and he said something to the effect of, "What's the point of me going there if I can beat everyone?"

I was a bit blown away by that kind of ego. I'm pretty sure Oscar De La Hoya could beat the crap out of Eddie Roach but that doesn't mean Eddie Roach is a chump.

[gooch]

since GJJ or BJJ is an evolved form of JJJ, i find it kind of funny that they are so unaccepting of any further developement

ps. i love stories where guys are named after colours, it makes me picture everyone as a resouvoir dogs character

[AJ]

since GJJ or BJJ is an evolved form of JJJ, i find it kind of funny that they are so unaccepting of any further developement

Maybe they are too busy developing the "high guard" to care about the rubber guard? ;)

Just my two cents... GJJ is still primarily a self defense style so they probably won't outright use rubber guard unless they have a separate "how to defend yourself against drug addled naked meth heads" clinic. BJJ still has the gi as it's foundation so I'd imagine a lot of their game is adapting Gi techniques into no gi techniques rather than just grabbing straight wrestling moves and adapting them or just creating new stuff.

Ironically, a wrestler at my gym showed me a sweet arm drag take down that he does in highschool wrestling. I quickly adapted it to a move that also takes back mount and I realized that it was similar to Marcelo Garcia's trick. Clearly that dude is paying attention.