MMA "Super bowl"

[Marcus_CC13]

What is everyone expecting out of this event?

-Fight wise
-location wise
-production
-even rules

Thoughts?

[Fox1s2]

What is it?

[HossZalios]

Location wise? Gotta be in Vegas.

Other than that...its all up for grabs.

[Marcus_CC13]

What is it?

4 Now its what they are calling the pride vs ufc card

[Tom Gavrilos]

Im so excited about this I cant even tell you guys!!!
Ive wanted to see this exact thing for YEARS

[Ryan]

Im so excited about this I cant even tell you guys!!!
Ive wanted to see this exact thing for YEARS

Me too, unfortunately though, I can't see them coming to an agreement that will prevent one side or the other from making excuses as to why they lost. Lets see, Dan Henderson vs Chuck Liddell. You will either hear "I am not used to a cage", "I am not used to the ring", "I would have won had we used a UFC official", "All the PRIDE rules were changed". I just can't see both sides being happy. I think it would be best if UFC had forced PRIDE to fight an entire year in a cage so that everyone came accustomed to a universal fight stage. I think with a cage you see much less restarts in the center. I think a fighter like Tito would be lost in a ring since he can't bunch up his opponent in the corner of a ring and GNP. He would pretty much have to throw elbows around the ropes.

[Marcus_CC13]

Good point about the rules playing into excuses however if Dana has his way it will be universal rules befor this event happens.

[Ryan]

I know Dana said the rules will be the same universally but he said he is allowing PRIDE to keep the ring because he doesn't want to interfere with the culture. Basically, Dana wants to keep PRIDE a Japanese product. I thought then that they may rank the fighters and for each fight possibly use the higher ranked fighters' domain but then that would suck taking the cage out for 1 fight and putting a ring in at another fight. BUT.... there is no neutral ground.

UNLESS..... they put a square cage in a ring type canvas

[Marcus_CC13]

I kno this but now Pride will have elbows and hopefully we can see a UFC with knees on the ground which would greatly push the pace on some fighters

[Ryan]

I kno this but now Pride will have elbows and hopefully we can see a UFC with knees on the ground which would greatly push the pace on some fighters

True but we will have to wait and see what Dana and Ferititas decide on the venue and stage the fights will be held on.

[Tom Gavrilos]

Id take Knees over Elbows all day long! Elbows can cause superficial cuts that prematurely end the fight.

Im glad that the Pride guys get to use the Ring.

Chute Box is not the same without knees and soccer kicks/stomps.
Back in the early Pride this is why Sakuraba dominated...once they allowed knees on the ground Wandy ate him alive!

[Ryan]

I guess I am just concerned that states won't renew their approval of MMA for sanctioned fights. Its already hard enough to get it sanctioned in NY and Michigan.

[Fox1s2]

I never got that....Why can't they just allow it since it is your choice to fight, not like your being forced?...plus don't they sign all this paperwork saying that the host is not held responsible?

[Ryan]

Our government and athletic association feels as if they must police the fights and ensure rules. Your right, they sign papers and are medically clear but in all honesty there is still some liability. What if the ref doesn't stop the fight quickly enough and someone gets their head kicked in from a head stomp? Those bicycle kicks and head stomps are NOT martial arts. That is brutality. Its the same reason Thai fighters do not dip taped hands in glass. Yeah, sure, its great for the fans but who wants their fav. fighter out for 6-10 months due to a horrific injury?

[Fox1s2]

Yea, but with all the regulations, there essentially taking the true sport out of the game...soon its gonna be almost unbearable to watch.

[Ryan]

so, when you see somebody laying on the street in a puddle of blood and somebody is kicking them in the head you would consider that martial arts? What martial art skill is involved in punting someones head like a football? None.


Soccer kicks would pre-maturely stop a fight. UFC officials stop fights when a guy is hit 3 or so times with no defense. What will they do if your soccer kicked in the head?

UFC has just started getting some exposure from ESPN by showing Serra/GSP highlights.

[HossZalios]

UFC has just started getting some exposure from ESPN by showing Serra/GSP highlights.


And thank God for that. If you're covering such things as horse racing and golf, why not MMA? It's something I've been pestering ESPN about through e-mails for months now. Finally they've begun to show highlights and treat it as a "real" sport in their eyes.

I mean...if they're going to be showing boxing, which pales in comparrison to MMA in popularity nowadays...it only makes sense to show the MMA highlights as well.

[Eric?!]

Me too, unfortunately though, I can't see them coming to an agreement that will prevent one side or the other from making excuses as to why they lost. Lets see, Dan Henderson vs Chuck Liddell. You will either hear "I am not used to a cage", "I am not used to the ring", "I would have won had we used a UFC official", "All the PRIDE rules were changed". I just can't see both sides being happy. I think it would be best if UFC had forced PRIDE to fight an entire year in a cage so that everyone came accustomed to a universal fight stage. I think with a cage you see much less restarts in the center. I think a fighter like Tito would be lost in a ring since he can't bunch up his opponent in the corner of a ring and GNP. He would pretty much have to throw elbows around the ropes.

This is how I feel about the whole PRIDE vs. UFC BS... I say break it into two events, using both set of rules and both the cage and ring. And then see who is left standing from both Companies?!

[Ryan]

What are you saying? Do it like baseball? Game 1... ring Game 2.... cage? The fights may end up months apart then ppl may lose interest.

This is my suggestion.

UFC captain- Chuck Liddell
PRIDE captain- Fedor Emelianenko

TEAM UFC TEAM PRIDE
-Sean Sherk -Hayato Sakurai
-George St. Pierre -Takanori Gomi
-Anderson Silva -Dan Henderson
-Chuck Liddell -Wanderlei Silva
-Randy Couture -Fedor Emelianenko

[Eric?!]

What are you saying? Do it like baseball? Game 1... ring Game 2.... cage? The fights may end up months apart then ppl may lose interest.

This is my suggestion.

UFC captain- Chuck Liddell
PRIDE captain- Fedor Emelianenko

TEAM UFC TEAM PRIDE
-Sean Sherk -Hayato Sakurai
-George St. Pierre -Takanori Gomi
-Anderson Silva -Dan Henderson
-Chuck Liddell -Wanderlei Silva
-Randy Couture -Fedor Emelianenko

You know how in PRIDE they have Open Tournments, where Fighters will go 2 - 3 times in a night.


Instead of WAND, I would put in SHOGUN, and take Sakurai(Sherk vs. Gomi) out to put Aoki up against GSP...just my .02 cents?!

[crklyn408]

Wandy is the KING of the face stomp!!

[ThaSandman]

Wandy is the KING of the face stomp!!

And that means...? The face stomp takes no skill at all and the only reason he's the king is because he doesn't want to get into someone's guard and work for a submission or actually strike his downed opponent with hammer fists or punches.

[motoevo]

It would be great to watch super fights. However, its really hard to have a international rules of MMA. There's so much to be considered in a event. Not only elbows or knees, cage or ring. How the fight to be scored etc.
America fans wants cage however alot of other fighting org uses rings. Pancrase, Shooto, IFL, K1, Pride and Bodog.
Fights happened in the states usually banned knee unless its in Hawaii however there's orgs uses both. I would says as for knees and elbows they should use both. So we wont see anyone who ended up in north south position can't do nothing or someone who shoot in and just keep all four on the ground and the standing one cant really do anything.
Both methods is about to end the fight. As for martial arts standing point I do think soccer kick should count because martial arts was not intent to be pretty but effective. It was invented to do whatever is necessary to stop ur emeny. That said to a untrained person its kinda hard to land a soccer or elbow when dude on the defense knows what hes doing.

Now that being said I think it would be great if they do it every six months and every other one in Japan. Japan still sells more live ticket than US. Pride event attracts about 30000 everytime. It would be a smart business move and the fan will see top level fights in every six month. Fighters have to train both cage and ring elbows and knee to prepare them in super fights.

[ThaSandman]

Good post and good points made. The idea of doing one every 6 months and alternating from Japan to US is cool.

[crklyn408]

That's where you are mistaken. In order to get a face stomp in, one must get the opponent in position, i.e. a takedown. I'd think that requires some skill, outside the fact that the opponent is trying to avoid eating someone's dirty ass foot!! XOXO:p


And that means...? The face stomp takes no skill at all and the only reason he's the king is because he doesn't want to get into someone's guard and work for a submission or actually strike his downed opponent with hammer fists or punches.

[ThaSandman]

That's where you are mistaken. In order to get a face stomp in, one must get the opponent in position, i.e. a takedown. I'd think that requires some skill, outside the fact that the opponent is trying to avoid eating someone's dirty ass foot!! XOXO:p

good point I just think he's a lil suspect in someone's guard and he tends to use stomps, but hey whatever is effective for him right?

[crklyn408]

I agree to a point. Although Wandy seems to have lost his edge, you can't say he is talentless. That's like saying Mariah Carey can't sing. She might not be able to act her way out of a whipped cream jail cell, but she can sing=)



good point I just think he's a lil suspect in someone's guard and he tends to use stomps, but hey whatever is effective for him right?

[ThaSandman]

I agree to a point. Although Wandy seems to have lost his edge, you can't say he is talentless. That's like saying Mariah Carey can't sing. She might not be able to act her way out of a whipped cream jail cell, but she can sing=)

Naw I would never say he isn't talentless He's one of the greats.

[crklyn408]

Well done man!! Well done=)


Naw I would never say he isn't talentless He's one of the greats.

[Ryan]

I think Wandy is overrated. Why? He fights the same guys over and over. When they announced Hendo vs Wandy they neglected to mention it was their second fight. He has fought guys he has already beaten 3-5 times and rarely goes in for a rematch if he has lost previously. Yes, he is a great fighter but I feel PRIDE fans think he is a God when he isn't.

A superfight once every 6 months? That would be cool. The only thing I would dislike though is that the months leading up to the superfight the UFC ppvs and the PRIDE ppvs will be weak. Why? The fighters who will represent both orgs. will not be fighting so we will not get any tough title fights within 2-3 months. UNLESS they put HW, LHW and MW in Jun and WW and LW in Dec.

[crklyn408]

Agreed, about the superfights, and about Wandy, but I never said he was a god, just that he wasn't talentless=)


I think Wandy is overrated. Why? He fights the same guys over and over. When they announced Hendo vs Wandy they neglected to mention it was their second fight. He has fought guys he has already beaten 3-5 times and rarely goes in for a rematch if he has lost previously. Yes, he is a great fighter but I feel PRIDE fans think he is a God when he isn't.

A superfight once every 6 months? That would be cool. The only thing I would dislike though is that the months leading up to the superfight the UFC ppvs and the PRIDE ppvs will be weak. Why? The fighters who will represent both orgs. will not be fighting so we will not get any tough title fights within 2-3 months. UNLESS they put HW, LHW and MW in Jun and WW and LW in Dec.

[ThaSandman]

I think Wandy is overrated. Why? He fights the same guys over and over. When they announced Hendo vs Wandy they neglected to mention it was their second fight. He has fought guys he has already beaten 3-5 times and rarely goes in for a rematch if he has lost previously. Yes, he is a great fighter but I feel PRIDE fans think he is a God when he isn't.

A superfight once every 6 months? That would be cool. The only thing I would dislike though is that the months leading up to the superfight the UFC ppvs and the PRIDE ppvs will be weak. Why? The fighters who will represent both orgs. will not be fighting so we will not get any tough title fights within 2-3 months. UNLESS they put HW, LHW and MW in Jun and WW and LW in Dec.

Or if they do 2 fights from each weight class at each of the 2 events that will have an even set up of top fighters from each weight class and it will allow you to build up some of the other talent in those weight classes for the time being.

[Ryan]

Agreed, about the superfights, and about Wandy, but I never said he was a god, just that he wasn't talentless=)

Oh, no. I know, I was talking about people who just think Wandy could do no wrong. I have been on message boards where PRIDE fans say Wandy could whoop up on Fedor if given a chance. I have seen your stance on MMA and I am comfortable in knowing that you have substantial MMA knowledge. I was def. not accusing you of thinking of him as a God. cool?:D

[crklyn408]

Lol, I have wild dreams, but Wandy beat up on Fedor??!!!??!! Hahahahaha!! Lol, I don't get upset baby=) You and me are aces!! Cheers for your insightful posts=) XOXO:)


Oh, no. I know, I was talking about people who just think Wandy could do no wrong. I have been on message boards where PRIDE fans say Wandy could whoop up on Fedor if given a chance. I have seen your stance on MMA and I am comfortable in knowing that you have substantial MMA knowledge. I was def. not accusing you of thinking of him as a God. cool?:D

[motoevo]

I have been on message boards where PRIDE fans say Wandy could whoop up on Fedor if given a chance.

Now thats just dumb.. Wandy fought Mark Hunt and Cro Cop. The outcome wasn't pretty at all, and fedor beat both of them. Not to mention different weight class and all..

There's too many people have blind faith on fighters. Wandy is popular because his fights usually dont go to decisions. More exciting to watch for causal fans.

Man I like it here way better than sherdog.. People dont blindly support single fighter. :D

Yeah PPV will be week leading up to super fights thats no way around it. Not alot fans will actually buy PPV every month or every 2 weeks. I think Dana is heading the right way team up with spike and HBO. With pay cable networks. Dana dont have to put up weak PPV but can actually focus on big cards.

[ThaSandman]

Now thats just dumb.. Wandy fought Mark Hunt and Cro Cop. The outcome wasn't pretty at all, and fedor beat both of them. Not to mention different weight class and all..

There's too many people have blind faith on fighters. Wandy is popular because his fights usually dont go to decisions. More exciting to watch for causal fans.

Man I like it here way better than sherdog.. People dont blindly support single fighter. :D

Yeah PPV will be week leading up to super fights thats no way around it. Not alot fans will actually buy PPV every month or every 2 weeks. I think Dana is heading the right way team up with spike and HBO. With pay cable networks. Dana dont have to put up weak PPV but can actually focus on big cards.

Yep seems to be the idea this way the PPV's will really have significant meaning and increase the PPV buyrate which means more money to sign the best names in the sport. I'm anxious to see what kind of American and Japanese TV deal Zuffa will secure for Pride because that will be the key for the superfight cards to succeed.

[Tom Gavrilos]

I'm anxious to see what kind of American and Japanese TV deal Zuffa will secure for Pride because that will be the key for the superfight cards to succeed.

Good Point! I am curious to see this too.
Its one thing to buy Pride its another to make it work for everyone here and overseas.

[ThaSandman]

Good Point! I am curious to see this too.
Its one thing to buy Pride its another to make it work for everyone here and overseas.


Apparently Dana said he has a pretty good feeling that he will have a major network deal in the US I thinking possibly a network like FX or the CW would be a good fit having it on a network like ESPN or ESPN2 is somewhat of a pipe dream. The Japan TV Deal shouldn't be a problem at all with the new ownership now perhaps they will get back on FujiTV now that Zuffa is running PRIDE.

[Ryan]

I am hoping that UFC makes less ppv's a year and more HBO specials. The only thing I am worried about is that Dana will skimp on the HBO fights and make 1-2 great ppv fights and then semi-great 2-3 fights before main event. If this happens then we will never see the good fights leading up to #1 contender on HBO.

Dana may not give us great HBO fights because they are free. With less ppv's it equals less revenue (unless buyrates go up).

I was extatic to see Sanchez vs Parysian..... I would love to see 1 or 2 of these for each HBO special.

[BigD]

Wandy's my favorite fighter (all my no-gi gear is wandy's brand) but I think he's about ready for retirement. Yes, he's young, but he started early, and has absorbed a tremendous amount of punishment for such a "short" career. If you watch him fight Yoshida, or Hunt, you see a ferocious pit-bull who just crushes people. Even in Silva vs Jackson 2 he was a machine. Lately he's been looking less crisp, and I don't think someone who's game is really based on bashing opponents into a pulp (which is probably more reliant on peak athleticism than pure grappling, IMO) can keep it up at this level for much longer. Plus, if Pride rules are phased out for UFC's Wandy loses some of his best attacks, knees from front headlock, and stomps.

Shogun appears to be Chute Boxing's future, again, just a speculative opinion, don't chew me out for it :).

As for UFC versus Pride...
Fedor could probably decimate the entire HW division at UFC, nobody in that division seems to benefit from the rules change, i.e. elbows in, knees out. And Fedor seems to like ground and pound, so elbows from him could be a boon.

For smaller fighters, I'm out of the loop with the newer guys but for LHW, Jackson and Liddell will probably determine the best 205 lb fighter, I think with knees/stomps removed, Jackson could beat Wandy. I HATE to admit it, but with UFC rules, I think Liddell could beat Silva too. I favor Jackson over Liddell, so at 205, I'd rank them as Jackson -> Liddell -> Silva :(.

I'm stoked to see Pride's heavies join the UFC with this acquisition because Pride, IMO has always had way more talent in that weight class. Unfortunately I don't think Wandy will crossover well, but the loss of my favorite is trumped by the upside of all that talent pooling together.

EDIT: Speaking of Hightlight worthy fights...Diaz versus Parysian was one of the greatest fights I have ever seen in my life.

[Marcus_CC13]

[QUOTE=motoevo;527]Now thats just dumb.. Wandy fought Mark Hunt and Cro Cop. The outcome wasn't pretty at all, and fedor beat both of them. Not to mention different weight class and all..

Weights not really an issue durring the OWGP Wand was at heavyweight weight

Id like to add I do not believe he would beat Fedor

[motoevo]

yeah i heard wandy walks around in upper 220s.
OWGP is great but man it rough to fight against dudes that have to cut down for fights. I think you will never see Gomi or any light skilled fighter take OWGP.. just have a heavyweight laying on top of you can be harsh lol

[BigD]

[QUOTE=motoevo;527]Now thats just dumb.. Wandy fought Mark Hunt and Cro Cop. The outcome wasn't pretty at all, and fedor beat both of them. Not to mention different weight class and all..

Weights not really an issue durring the OWGP Wand was at heavyweight weight

Id like to add I do not believe he would beat Fedor

I've seen Hunt Vs Silva several times, I don't think Hunt deserved the decision. I sincerely believe Wandy was robbed. The judges should have accounted for the weight discrepency to a greater degree, IMO.

[Ryan]

do you think judging by damage is good? What I mean is, is that some people are bleeders... Forrest Griffin, Mayhem and Parysian.... does that necessarily mean more damage in your eyes?

[BigD]

I think damage is something that you can't control taking into account. If a dude dished out incredible punishment, but looks like a raw hamburger, whereas his opponent looks fine but landed one lucky elbow, that elbow may draw the TKO...it is lame, but if someone sees a LOT of blood that "oh shit he's dying" thing may not be easy to subdue.

Personally, I weigh aggression, positional dominance, swing/hit percentage and ring control the highest (but hey, I'm not a judge lol).