Rubber Guard/Invisible Collar Question

[Carl_AK]

In his book, Eddie says that the Invisible Collar is one of those moves that works better the bigger the guy is. I've found the opposite to be true, and I'm wondering what I may be doing wrong. There are two guys that I do some sparring with on a regular basis. One is small & one is large. My first invisible collar I threw on the smaller guy, and he tapped quickly. I did it a second time at his request (he had never heard of it before) and it worked beautifully both times.

I tried it on the bigger guy today. I couldn't even put it on, when I asked him to hold still while I tried something. His chest is so big that when I threw up my left leg & locked onto my left ankle with my right hand in Chill Dog, my arm had to be fully extended to reach my ankle. If he just woulda leaned forward he would have armbar'd me against his shoulder. Every time I try to pull rubber guard on this guy, he kinda chuckles and shakes his head. It's rather embarrasing. How do you pull rubber guard around a big barrel of a guy?

[Andy]

I'd try pushing myself out from underneath him a bit before, not too much though, or don't even try. It's real easy for people that are bigger than you to break rubber guard, especially when their chest is big.

[Carl_AK]

Yeah, it just seems wierd that Eddie would say the invisible collar is better against bigger guys, if you can't even get to chill dog effectively against bigger guys. I have a 60" Chest around the shoulders, and this guy is probably around 70" or so, and I can't even hardly get him in crack-head control, much less get my right elbow on the left side of his head (his right) and dig it into his clavicle. My legs are just to far away cause they're going around his bulk. So my arm is fully extended & any pressure I put on won't tap him, it'll armbar me.

Frusterating.

[Ghosted3]

I need to buy that book soon...

[Ari Bolden]

Carl:

The question is: Is there anything wrong with your technique?

The answer: probably not.

A couple of things to remember about the invisible collar. The submission doesn't work on everybody. Even by Eddie's own admission, some people can just withstand it. Eddie told me that “he’ll give the invisible collar a try and if it doesn't work, he'll move to something else."

WE have to remember that the rubber guard and the submissions that come from it require flexibility. We also have to remember that our physical size (and our partner's size) HAS TO be taken into account while grappling.

I have a student who is short and squat with short legs that cannot hold guard on some of my bigger students. His legs just aren't long enough to do it.

Same goes for the invisible collar. If a guys chest is that big, you ain't gonna get the move. That is why we offer you many tools for your tool box.

A good martial artist is the one who knows his/her limitations and can adapt from one move to the next. If something worked 100% of the time, that's all I would study. But we all know life ain't like that.

Large opponents do possess problems. We just have to figure out ways to work around those.

my 2 cents
Ari

[Carl_AK]

Thanks Ari,
So when Eddie says that it is a move that works better against bigger opponents, he probably means people my size (60" chest) but there is an upper limit there where it just wont work anymore? Because that is what confused me. Eddie made it sound like the bigger the better, with this move. At least that is what I took from his book.

Thanks again.

[Ari Bolden]

Yep..there is an upper limit. A 70" chest is massive...perhaps a gogo or loco on the guy would be better.

[Carl_AK]

Yep..there is an upper limit. A 70" chest is massive...perhaps a gogo or loco on the guy would be better.

Yeah, I tried a gogo when the collar didn't work, but he doesn't have a neck, so I was just shoving my shin into his jaw & ticking him off. I think my best bet next time is to just shove my foot in his face & Kung Fu Move my way to Jui Claw.

BTW, I just got my first new belt tonight! Skipped yellow & got orange. Still a noob, but it looks so much better than white. :)

[Ghosted3]

Grats on the promotion.

[Hadaka Jime]

is your trainer stubborn on giving belts, because training now I'm trying to go from my purple belt in Gracie jiu jitsu to brown, Relson is very tough in his evaluations and belt test's but i love it/hate it because i want the brown so bad, but i want to know i really earned it but i can't wait I'm about 2 months away from my brown belt

[Carl_AK]

I don't know, this was my first belt advancement like I said. All he really did was go through the dozen or so moves we've been drilling over the last 6 months, and see how smoothly I did them. Since I did them all well he gave my belt based on how long I've been training. He normally tests for belts every 3 months, but I've been there 5.5 months & he skipped the last scheduled testing, so I was due for two belts, yellow & orange.