Black Belts?

[Tagg1080]

Is there a point where rank is just a little unnecessary?

I am testing for my second degree today, and I am sitting here asking myself why. I would be perfectly content with getting a black belt, screwing the degrees, and just training the rest of my life. Some people are VERY into getting the rank, and I am not one of them. The only reason I am getting the rank, is because I wish to open a martial arts school down the road, and the public is obsessed with instructors having rank.

I know a few people that have stopped getting rank, my instructor included. He is a 5th degree, and stopped there. To him, there is no reason to get any more stripes, just learn more knowledge.

There are a lot of different opinions about rank, the one I am specifically asking right now is: Is there a point when it is just too much? If anyone knows Kenpo Joe, he has a literal LIST or rank, is that really needed? I mean the guy is a freakin machine, but seriously, things like that to me seem like life would be just fine without them...

Just to show an example: (this is off of his website, I am just posting it to show an example of what I think is TOO much rank, no offense to him, he is an excellent person, and does SO much for the martial arts)
# Inheiritor ("Shir Tai Gung") of Shao Choy Hung Kung Fu [Chin Na-5 Animal Style-Chuan Fa]
# 8th Degree BLACK BELT (HACHIDAN) in Nindo Ryu Kobujutsu (Title of "Kyoshi")
# 8th Degree BLACK BELT in David German's T.A.I.(Transitional Action Incorporated)
# 8th Degree BLACK BELT (Master of the Arts) in Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate
# 5th Degree BLACK BELT (GODAN) in Karazenpo Goshinjutsu (MA. Co-Vice Pres)
# 5th Degree BLACK BELT (GODAN) in Chuan Fa/Kempo (Kajukenpo-Pai Lum)[Sigung]
# 5th Degree BLACK BELT (GODAN) in Nindo Ryu Atemido
# 4th Degree BLACK BELT (YODAN) in Nindo Ryu Goshin Jujutsu
# 4th Degree BLACK BELT (YODAN) in Nindo Ryu Gendai Ninjutsu [Taijutsu]
# 4th Degree BLACK BELT (YODAN) in Nindo Ryu Iaijutsu
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT (YEEDAN) in Tai Chuan Tao
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT in Tae Kwon Do
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT (SHODAN) in George Elmer's American Chinese Kenpo Karate [Technical Advisor]
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT (SHODAN) in Mark Shuey's Canemasters Curriculum
# SIFU (INSTRUCTOR) in Northern Shaolin Praying Mantis [LIU HO {SIX HARMONY}, CHI SHING {SEVEN STAR} & BA FA OR BA BU {EIGHT STEP} KUNG FU/KUO SHU/WU SHU
# SIFU in Tai Chi Chuan (Wu's Short 24, Yang's Long 108, and Chen's Short 24 Forms
# INSTRUCTOR in American-Filipino Arnis-Escrima-Kali Training System
# Member of the Kenpo International Yudanshakai {Black Belt Society]
# World Combat Arts Federation Massachusetts Representative
# Honorary BLACK SASH Level in Raven Kenpo Jujutsu [Technical Advisor]

So do you guys think it can get to be too much?

[Otto]

Just to show an example: (this is off of his website, I am just posting it to show an example of what I think is TOO much rank, no offense to him, he is an excellent person, and does SO much for the martial arts)
# Inheiritor ("Shir Tai Gung") of Shao Choy Hung Kung Fu [Chin Na-5 Animal Style-Chuan Fa]
# 8th Degree BLACK BELT (HACHIDAN) in Nindo Ryu Kobujutsu (Title of "Kyoshi")
# 8th Degree BLACK BELT in David German's T.A.I.(Transitional Action Incorporated)
# 8th Degree BLACK BELT (Master of the Arts) in Ed Parker's American Kenpo Karate
# 5th Degree BLACK BELT (GODAN) in Karazenpo Goshinjutsu (MA. Co-Vice Pres)
# 5th Degree BLACK BELT (GODAN) in Chuan Fa/Kempo (Kajukenpo-Pai Lum)[Sigung]
# 5th Degree BLACK BELT (GODAN) in Nindo Ryu Atemido
# 4th Degree BLACK BELT (YODAN) in Nindo Ryu Goshin Jujutsu
# 4th Degree BLACK BELT (YODAN) in Nindo Ryu Gendai Ninjutsu [Taijutsu]
# 4th Degree BLACK BELT (YODAN) in Nindo Ryu Iaijutsu
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT (YEEDAN) in Tai Chuan Tao
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT in Tae Kwon Do
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT (SHODAN) in George Elmer's American Chinese Kenpo Karate [Technical Advisor]
# 1st Degree BLACK BELT (SHODAN) in Mark Shuey's Canemasters Curriculum
# SIFU (INSTRUCTOR) in Northern Shaolin Praying Mantis [LIU HO {SIX HARMONY}, CHI SHING {SEVEN STAR} & BA FA OR BA BU {EIGHT STEP} KUNG FU/KUO SHU/WU SHU
# SIFU in Tai Chi Chuan (Wu's Short 24, Yang's Long 108, and Chen's Short 24 Forms
# INSTRUCTOR in American-Filipino Arnis-Escrima-Kali Training System
# Member of the Kenpo International Yudanshakai {Black Belt Society]
# World Combat Arts Federation Massachusetts Representative
# Honorary BLACK SASH Level in Raven Kenpo Jujutsu [Technical Advisor]


Yeah, but can he cook?

Tagg, best of luck in your test today. Got get em, kid.

[AJ]

More belts more dollar bills? An instructor's got to eat. I'm not judging anybody for it and I'm definitely not calling "McDojo"on it but sometimes it just is what it is.

The only value I could see in that many belts is if each belt represented a specific skill set that you were authorized to teach. So that your belt operates as a walking diploma but I don't know how your system works so I can't say.

[younwha]

idk... a lot of belts are awarded when it comes to situations like that, they didn't test for it, or extensively train in the system. It would be like taking one of the Gracie's and sending them to train in aikido/JJJ/hapkido etc... They would probably pick up the system pretty quick and be awarded a high rank in a matter of a few months, if that. So usually a person has numerous high ranks because they're near perfect in their base, which of course is going to be similar to the awarded rank.

I'm not big on rank, I got my black belt like four months ago... I could really care less whether I test again or not. How many stripes I have is irrelevant. All of our black belts wear black gi's to signify their level of achievement, I wear white because it's traditional and has meaning . Sometimes people joke and say I wear white because I'm not ready for the responsibilities of an instructor, when I've been training for longer than most 3rd dans in our system. Visual perceptions are weak, what you wear, and what papers say mean nothing. What you have to offer is what's important.

[AJ]

That's why you buy the pink gi. Well, that and because Gene Libell is a bad ass.

http://www.geocities.com/jkdresources/genelebell.jpg

[MonsterAssault]

Judo Gene! That pic is awesome.

I think for a lot of people stripes or degrees, whatever you want to call it, is a way to signify the time you put into something. Obviously a black belt who has been training for 35 years should be held to a higher standard than one who has been training for 20, which I think is where the stripes come into play.

[NebS]

The knowledge you get is more important than the belt itself. There could be a blue belt that knows everything there is to know about his particular martial art, but hes only a blue because he didn't wanna grade.

"A belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. You've got to cover the rest" - Royce Gracie said that, I think. Sorry if I'm wrong.

[jbrentsmith]

I think getting the various belts is kind of a recognition of accomplishment. You may know you're good but getting that recognition does feel pretty good. But really after the blackbelt, I think the stripes are just a marketting ploy.

[prodigypenn]

The knowledge you get is more important than the belt itself. There could be a blue belt that knows everything there is to know about his particular martial art, but hes only a blue because he didn't wanna grade.

"A belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. You've got to cover the rest" - Royce Gracie said that, I think. Sorry if I'm wrong.

if im not mistaken i think that was renzo who said that

[Tagg1080]

Yeah, but can he cook?

Tagg, best of luck in your test today. Got get em, kid.

Ha! I will ask him next time I see him!

And thanks, I passed! Twas an hour and a half, did everything in our entire system, minus 3 combinations and 1 form!

BLAH!!!!!!

Now I have 2 stripies! :D :D :cool:

Yea, I don't think it is THAT important, knowledge seems to be the best. I do respect people with a lot though, because most people with a LOT of rank, actually know what they are doing! But then some guys who have nothing know a lot... It is a very interesting thing!

[Otto]

Ha! I will ask him next time I see him!
And thanks, I passed! Twas an hour and a half, did everything in our entire system, minus 3 combinations and 1 form!
BLAH!!!!!!
Now I have 2 stripies! :D :D :cool:
Yea, I don't think it is THAT important, knowledge seems to be the best. I do respect people with a lot though, because most people with a LOT of rank, actually know what they are doing! But then some guys who have nothing know a lot... It is a very interesting thing!

Young Kyle,
Congrats, bro! Keep up the training, keep up the learning, keep up your hands.
Rock on, Tagg.

[younwha]

Congrats on the promotion.

just another thing to add to this discussion.... just imagine how many black belts I could buy through 'at home courses' via the internet... not saying that's what this guy does, but I'm sure there are many out there

[Tagg1080]

Congrats on the promotion.

just another thing to add to this discussion.... just imagine how many black belts I could buy through 'at home courses' via the internet... not saying that's what this guy does, but I'm sure there are many out there

You mean the rank I showed at the begining? If you knew the guy, you wouldn't doubt it at all! :D

He is a MASTER, in every sense of the word, like, seriously. Last seminar I was at that he went to, he brought a DUFFLE BAG filled with KNIVES and GUNS, poured them onto the floor, and giggling and skipping around, said "I brought tooooyyyss!!!!!!"

Lol, he is a crazy good martial artists, that seeks to preserve all the arts he can as best he can.



anywayyyyyyy, :p

thnx, :D

there is a lot to it, and a lot to talk about, :p

[younwha]

I didn't mean him in particular, just meant that there are probably many dojos around with instructors of the like.

[Tagg1080]

I didn't mean him in particular, just meant that there are probably many dojos around with instructors of the like.

Yea, it is sad when it happens...

It is even worse, to the victims, aka the instructors, when they think that they have been given real training. I have always felt bad for them... They have been cheated in life, and should be given opportunity to grow! I have only met one, where he was VERY smart, but was blocked off from the martial art world, and only had a few places to train. He thought he was legit, but wasn't. This is a sad, sad thing... :(

But, on the other side, there are the pieces of crap, that walk around with fake belts that they know are crap, but flaunt them anyway, i HATE them!

[cuzz63]

I got my Shodan in Kyokushin back in 92 then got my Nidan in 95. After that I ceased caring and when I took up other arts I stopped training in Karate.

[Acenes]

Congratulations mister!!! :)