bicep/calf cranks do you use them? and should they be allowed in tournaments?

[johnobanks]

hi my names john iv been on these forums for quiete a while always browsing and usually just to lazy to create my own and give my opinions but finally i wasnt lazy so here i am. So this has been on my mind for awhile and at the time is the only thing i could think about posting that i think people would have interesting opinions with, first what rules do you have at the gym you train at? what moves are you allowed to use and what belt are you allowed to use them at iv been noticing at diffrent gyms have diffrent rules, then that question goes into my other question i probly should of posted 2 diffrent posts but i did it in one lol, at my gym were allowed to use bicep cranks/slicers/compressors what ever u wanna call them in my opinion there one of the best and most usefull moves in all of jiu-jitsu from many postions if you play alot of open guard like i do you have many bicep cranks from many angles depends where there arms are reaching, also there is alot of open guard setups i find where u can go from arm bar to omaplata and both of those failing u still can get a bicep crank, or you can change that rotation of submissions and bicep crank just fits well into the mix, also it can be used when ur playing top game first myself im a very small person anyone with any mucle can hold there hands and resist an armbar i know all the ways to get that arm strightend to finish the armbar ie: spider web position, turning the arm on the angle and pulling, using ur feet to push the other arm and the list goes on and on. but iv found that no matter how big and strong the person is if you bicep crank him you will either tap him with the move itself or he will strighten his arm and then u finish with the armbar, but overall i find the move very usefull and helps small people from the top alot and open guard game also helps a big amount there are also sweeps from open guard with the bicep crank set up. So over all it is a very awsome and usefull move that i really dont like how it is ileagel in tournaments even tho it is a pain move in some way it is very effective and i wish it was allowed in tournaments, so anyone eltse? use the move or anything? think it should be allowed in tournaments or what are the rules at ur school about moves in general?


so this is my first post there will be many more i know i didnt use as much puncuation as i should have but neext time i will i was lazy lol

[jakem]

welcome john,trot on over to the new members thread and intro yourself

[zaxonortesus]

OMG, I couldn't read that. What I get out of is the question of bicep slicers. Yes, I use them, I'm a white belt. We all use them if we know them, but we also get how they work and what they are doing. We put them on slow, controlled, and if they are struggling and/or don't get what's happening, we let it go and move on, or explain the situation.

Welcome aboard man, go ahead and post a bio on yourself and get to posting, no more lurking! lol.

[AsianInvasion]

I like to use slicers a lot, especially the calf variety. They are my favourite, especially from on my back, be it from halfguard or lockdown.

[Ari Bolden]

Welcome John!

Just a suggestion to make it easier to read your post. Use the spell check option and re read your post before actually posting so we can read your stuff easier. Also, use paragraphs to make your threads easier to read. Just a tip my friend.

As for slicers, I use them all the time but at lower levels they should be avoided in tourneys. At higher belts, everything should be fair game.

[johnobanks]

yeah sorry i got lazy it was just a random moment then i started creating a post my bad next time it will be better. Also where is the new member thread couldnt find it.

but il just post a fast into here just until i find it: im a blue belt in bjj under royler gracie david adiv asociation in ontario canada, got my belt from royler gracie he stays at our gym for a couple months every year been doing jiu-jitsu for 2.5 years

[zaxonortesus]

Here you go man!

http://www.brazilianjiujitsugear.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1359

[naturalbornfighter1]

Nice one man, thats quite an honour being awarded your blue belt from Royler Gracie!

I agree, I'm around 5'2 and only around 9 stone, all of my training partners are 13 stone+ and at least a foot taller than me haha. I rarely manage to catch an armbar on any of them but I can always rely on a bicep cutter to get the tap. To me it's an invaluable part of my arsenal.

[johnobanks]

yeah with bigger guys and stuff i find you cant break the grip to armbar them on top at all, so the bicep crank from up top gives me a way to either break there grip or the movement they make will give me the armbar or something eltse.

reason i created a post is because alot of gyms have diffrent rules of what you can use or cant, and i wanted to see if alot of people use them or it is a rare thing.

i also really wish you could use these at a tournament they would help my game alot because there so stuck in my game now to begin with lol.

[cuzz63]

yeah with bigger guys and stuff i find you cant break the grip to armbar them on top at all, so the bicep crank from up top gives me a way to either break there grip or the movement they make will give me the armbar or something eltse.




I dont have a problem using them but sounds like they have become a crutch for your game. There are at least 3 other methods to break the grip maybe its time for you to earn those so your not stuck if you cant use the slicer.

[johnobanks]

lol i know them all slicer works the best. what methods are you talking about, i listed all the common ones and iv done alot more, also are u exactly firmilliar with the bicep crank from that position and exactly what move im talking about i could be more specfifc if you like

[Matt]

I use bicep slicers/arm crushs a hell of a lot.. my #1 submission.

[MatzeOne]

Sorry, I just read the title after taking a look on the first post...

So: Yes and yes, I allow them in my tournaments.

[younwha]

I like them, asked the owner of ATT about them and if they utilize them much in there gym, he said they don't really drill them because only pussies tap to them lol so....

[AsianInvasion]

I like them, asked the owner of ATT about them and if they utilize them much in there gym, he said they don't really drill them because only pussies tap to them lol so....

Is the trainer by any chance Arnold Schwartzenneger? GET IN THE HELLICOPTAHH, LITTLE MAN!

[Sue]

I like them, asked the owner of ATT about them and if they utilize them much in there gym, he said they don't really drill them because only pussies tap to them lol so....

Well that's an attitude to get people hurt at the gym, way to leave the ego at the door. I thought bicep slicers were just pain moves and don't actually cause much damage, but I was told that they are meant to break arms and tear ligaments, so they do cause permanent damage, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. That's why they are not allowed at lower levels in tournemants just like why heel hooks aren't allowed. I'm guessing with people thinking they are just pain moves that only pussies tap to, they feel they should just withstand the pain, but then their arm breaks or their elbow pops.

[cuzz63]

lol i know them all slicer works the best. what methods are you talking about, i listed all the common ones and iv done alot more, also are u exactly firmilliar with the bicep crank from that position and exactly what move im talking about i could be more specfifc if you like

My mistake, I reread your original (painful to read) post and saw you did have the common techniques to break the grips. I know exactly which sub you are referring too and I agree it is effective as hell but it doesnt change the facts, its not always legal so it behooves you to become better at breaking the grip. I said almost the exact thing to one of my guys last week who likes to slam out of armbars and triangles when he gets caught.

[Matt]

Well that's an attitude to get people hurt at the gym, way to leave the ego at the door. I thought bicep slicers were just pain moves and don't actually cause much damage, but I was told that they are meant to break arms and tear ligaments, so they do cause permanent damage, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. That's why they are not allowed at lower levels in tournemants just like why heel hooks aren't allowed. I'm guessing with people thinking they are just pain moves that only pussies tap to, they feel they should just withstand the pain, but then their arm breaks or their elbow pops.

Thats right.. very dangerous.. apply them slowly

[younwha]

Well that's an attitude to get people hurt at the gym, way to leave the ego at the door. I thought bicep slicers were just pain moves and don't actually cause much damage, but I was told that they are meant to break arms and tear ligaments, so they do cause permanent damage, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. That's why they are not allowed at lower levels in tournemants just like why heel hooks aren't allowed. I'm guessing with people thinking they are just pain moves that only pussies tap to, they feel they should just withstand the pain, but then their arm breaks or their elbow pops.

It very well may be due to the fact that people in training aren't putting the submission on that hard to worry about breaks, and plus it's an MMA school. If you just put me in a crush I'm not to the point to where my arm is breaking, I have time to punch you in the face, as opposed to an armbar snapping my arm.

[johnobanks]

wow i like all theese coments i really thought as a whole not many gyms use them and look down upon them as a bad or cheap move or in there gym rules not allowed to use them.

im glad most of you understand how awsome theese moves are and use them

also everyone has a diffrent tolerence to this move some people just the way there arm is dosnt get affected by it much some other people as soon as you put it on they tap it has to do alot with your bicep and how long or short your arms are to the resistance of the move , cause like you are saying some people say only pussies tap to it but i can feel alot diffrent depending on there body structure.

[Razors Edge]

Bicep Slicers are illegal because they cause compound fractures and most people dont even realize it.

I don't really like doing them unless I am rolling with a guy who recognizes what they can do, because if they dont I either have to release the sub early or risk his forearm being snapped in half.

Oh, BTW, I too have been a victim to a minor Bicep crusher injury. It happened 3 years ago, and today I have problems applying rear naked chokes with my left arm without pain.

Spread the word people. Bicep slicers break bones in the ugliest of ways. The sooner people acknowledge this fact, the sooner people will be willing to make them legal at the lower levels.

[Sue]

It very well may be due to the fact that people in training aren't putting the submission on that hard to worry about breaks, and plus it's an MMA school. If you just put me in a crush I'm not to the point to where my arm is breaking, I have time to punch you in the face, as opposed to an armbar snapping my arm.

Fair enough.

also everyone has a diffrent tolerence to this move some people just the way there arm is dosnt get affected by it much some other people as soon as you put it on they tap it has to do alot with your bicep and how long or short your arms are to the resistance of the move , cause like you are saying some people say only pussies tap to it but i can feel alot diffrent depending on there body structure.

It doesn't matter their tolerance to it, their arm is going to snap eventually. That's the same as some people who have very flexible shoulders so they are more resistance to omoplatas, but their shoulder will dislocate eventually. I know someone who had his arm broken because he didn't feel the pain and didn't tap. Bones can only take so much pressure before they break.

And please, please use grammar and punctuation. It doesn't have to be perfect but trying to read your messages are giving me a headache. Please and thank you.