Open Mat

[Acenes]

What do you guys think of open mat? You may call it something different where you train, but basically what I am referring to is: open mat - a time period where you can just come in and work on whatever you want, your instructor is there if you need any assistance, but basically you can do what you like, for example just roll with whomever is there, practice for a belt test or something else, etc.

Do you have any "open mat" sessions? When are they?

How often do you do?

How many people usually show up(what percentage of practitioners is that)?

Are they useful, or is rolling at the end of class enough?


Just curious, I personally do like open mat. Let's me work on what I am not good at ... ahem I mean, lets me work on what I am worst at :rolleyes: which might not get covered in class that week.

[Matt]

We have an hour open mat on fridays 7:30 to 8:30.


I prefer it to the actual classes, so yeah.. its a beautiful thing.

I'd rather have 1 hour of constant rolling then 2 hours of constant teaching..

[SavageKitsune]

It's like a party- it can be good or not so good depending on who shows up!

We have 30-60 minutes of "open mat" time after about half the classes. I wish I could stay for every one, because it's fun and I often learn a lot. Often, though, I'm just too exhausted after drilling and positional training.

Often on holidays, our school will have an open mat in the afternoon instead of cancelling class altogether. Thanksgiving Day open mat, etc.

Sometimes there won't be anyone appropriate for me to roll with. if it's just me and three 280lb white belts, that's not very helpful to me.

Otherwise, I try to walk around and ask everyone in the room- to get a good variety of different training partners.

[Ari Bolden]

We have an hour open mat on fridays 7:30 to 8:30.


I prefer it to the actual classes, so yeah.. its a beautiful thing.

I'd rather have 1 hour of constant rolling then 2 hours of constant teaching..

Everybody wants to roll. However, every teacher from Eddie to Keith to my Japanese Jujutsu instructors have always said the same thing:

"Rolling (randori) is super fun but it is the learning of techniques (reps) that make us who we are."

I think open mat is fantastic but I also see a marked difference in ability when someone rolls a lot but trains less to someone who trains a lot (puts in hours and hours of reps) to rolling.

Perhaps it is an old school way of learning and perhaps it is out dated (I dunno). Maybe today's student's don't need the reps anymore to get good. With attention spans what they are today and the video game culture, perhaps we are closer to the matrix that we really know.

Is muscle memory over rated?

[CEB]

Open mat is great. Open mat is where I train technique and combinations. I actually spar more in class or in "live training" classes.

[ZeiShou]

We have open mat at my school on Wednesday nights after the normal class. It's more a sparring class than anything else, but the instructor leaves and we just do our thing. I've rolled, taught, fought, tricked... all sorts of things during this time.

For my Jits fix I usually head up to Grouddwellers and train there on Saturday mornings since they have free open mat. I've taught, been taught, and rolled there. It's a lot of fun, especially rolling with new people.

[Ari Bolden]

I have to ask:

Are there gyms that don't have open mat? I think it is an essential tool for learning and I have never seen a gym that doesn't (unless it is a traditional martial arts gym).

[lone mantis]

Sometimes there won't be anyone appropriate for me to roll with. if it's just me and three 280lb white belts, that's not very helpful to me.



May be helpful to them though.

After we do technique for a while, we have "live training". Which is grab a partner and roll. Switch partners every five minutes or so. After that, its usually open mat. I personally love open mat. Its when I try out things that I might not learn in a typical week. Such as the nifty moves I learned from Submissions101. :D

[SavageKitsune]

May be helpful to them though.


I'm not rolling with any 280lb white belt unless I have seen enough of him to feel confident that he could roll without spazzing or crushing me to death under his weight.

[BadKarmaRising]

I'm not rolling with any 280lb white belt unless I have seen enough of him to feel confident that he could roll without spazzing or crushing me to death under his weight.

As we rotate through rounds I often find myself rolling with a 150lb'r and I always joke that I'm going to try to play "skinny"

No stacking, mashing, or crushing.

[SavageKitsune]

I have to ask:

Are there gyms that don't have open mat?).

technically, us- because my teacher doesn't want us to call it "open mat". He thinks that that term implies a tacit invitation for unscreened nonmembers to walk in and issue challenges, try to administer beatdowns, and otherwise behave like @sses and endanger his students. He wants us to call it "live training". ;)

[lone mantis]

I'm not rolling with any 280lb white belt unless I have seen enough of him to feel confident that he could roll without spazzing or crushing me to death under his weight.

Understandable. But on the other hand, wouldn't it be a good testament to your own ablilty to be able to handle said spazzing giant? I personally love when I get to roll with a newbie that is much bigger than me. Its a huge ego boost when my technique out weighs their weight. Thats me though. To each his own.

[SavageKitsune]

But on the other hand, wouldn't it be a good testament to your own ablilty to be able to handle said spazzing giant?.

Yeah, it would be, but right now I do not have that ability!

Someday, I hope.

[lone mantis]

I see. Sorry.

[Otto]

We always had open mat on Thursday night. Just come down and fight....or not. Work out on the side, watch, whatever, it was open. It was open to anyone, regardless of where they trained or what they trained. No charge, just come fight. Everyone seemed to like it, it was always the busiest night in the gym.

It was a good respite from the discipline of the rest of the week.

[AJ]

Open mat three times a week. I used to take on all challengers but now that I'm training with a back injury I've set the weight cut off at 190lbs (I'm 160 right now).

Too much over stacking with high guard torques my spine.

[Sue]

Yeah, it would be, but right now I do not have that ability!

Agreed. I am no where near the ability to be able to overcome that much of a weight difference with technique. And I don't want to get injured and have to take time off from training just because my ego needed to be boosted or because their ego doesn't let them get out techniqued by a girl.

Are there gyms that don't have open mat? I think it is an essential tool for learning and I have never seen a gym that doesn't (unless it is a traditional martial arts gym).

My gym doesn't have open mats but half the class time is spent rolling so it's pretty open mat-ish.

[Tallsilkyslim]

Everybody wants to roll. However, every teacher from Eddie to Keith to my Japanese Jujutsu instructors have always said the same thing:

"Rolling (randori) is super fun but it is the learning of techniques (reps) that make us who we are."

I think open mat is fantastic but I also see a marked difference in ability when someone rolls a lot but trains less to someone who trains a lot (puts in hours and hours of reps) to rolling.

Perhaps it is an old school way of learning and perhaps it is out dated (I dunno). Maybe today's student's don't need the reps anymore to get good. With attention spans what they are today and the video game culture, perhaps we are closer to the matrix that we really know.

Is muscle memory over rated?

I am probably in that category. :(

I don't think muscle memory is overrated though. I can always tell who has put in the reps and who hasn't.

As we rotate through rounds I often find myself rolling with a 150lb'r and I always joke that I'm going to try to play "skinny"

No stacking, mashing, or crushing.

Not everyone is so nice unfortunately. ;)

Understandable. But on the other hand, wouldn't it be a good testament to your own ablilty to be able to handle said spazzing giant? I personally love when I get to roll with a newbie that is much bigger than me. Its a huge ego boost when my technique out weighs their weight. Thats me though. To each his own.

For SavageKitsune it would be to each HER own. Which might shed some light on how a 280 lb gorilla might be a bit much. No disrespect Savage.:)


Agreed. I am no where near the ability to be able to overcome that much of a weight difference with technique. And I don't want to get injured and have to take time off from training just because my ego needed to be boosted or because their ego doesn't let them get out techniqued by a girl.



My gym doesn't have open mats but half the class time is spent rolling so it's pretty open mat-ish.

^^ That is what most gyms refer to as open mats. :cool:

[SavageKitsune]

For SavageKitsune it would be to each HER own. Which might shed some light on how a 280 lb gorilla might be a bit much. No disrespect Savage.:)


Like I said..... someday.

But today ain't that day.

[Tallsilkyslim]

Like I said..... someday.

But today ain't that day.

And there is nothing wrong with that. Even if that day never comes I don't think there is a person on the planet that would care.

But please post that vid when the day comes. :)

I'll be rootin for ya.

[Sue]

My gym doesn't have open mats but half the class time is spent rolling so it's pretty open mat-ish.

^^ That is what most gyms refer to as open mats. :cool:

Umm, no it's not.

What do you guys think of open mat? You may call it something different where you train, but basically what I am referring to is: open mat - a time period where you can just come in and work on whatever you want, your instructor is there if you need any assistance, but basically you can do what you like, for example just roll with whomever is there, practice for a belt test or something else, etc.

I should clarify by saying when we roll at the end of class we try to use what we learned in class but if someone decides to do something else or drills, we are not going to be stopped.

[Tallsilkyslim]

It could just be a difference in lingo due to being in different regions.

Where I live, open mats means find a partner and roll. So I assumed it was the same universally. My bad. :)

[Matt]

TEverybody wants to roll. However, every teacher from Eddie to Keith to my Japanese Jujutsu instructors have always said the same thing:

"Rolling (randori) is super fun but it is the learning of techniques (reps) that make us who we are."

I think open mat is fantastic but I also see a marked difference in ability when someone rolls a lot but trains less to someone who trains a lot (puts in hours and hours of reps) to rolling.

Perhaps it is an old school way of learning and perhaps it is out dated (I dunno). Maybe today's student's don't need the reps anymore to get good. With attention spans what they are today and the video game culture, perhaps we are closer to the matrix that we really know.

Is muscle memory over rated?

I'm not saying putting the reps in is pointless, but you won't create an inpassable guard by drilling spider guard 90minutes a day.. You need pressure which comes from live training and rolling.


I'm just agreeing with what marcelo Garcia said :-) he did more rolling then reping and dudes a beast!!





Mind memory :D not muscle :-(

[eyemyor]

Everybody wants to roll. However, every teacher from Eddie to Keith to my Japanese Jujutsu instructors have always said the same thing:

"Rolling (randori) is super fun but it is the learning of techniques (reps) that make us who we are."

I think open mat is fantastic but I also see a marked difference in ability when someone rolls a lot but trains less to someone who trains a lot (puts in hours and hours of reps) to rolling.

Perhaps it is an old school way of learning and perhaps it is out dated (I dunno). Maybe today's student's don't need the reps anymore to get good. With attention spans what they are today and the video game culture, perhaps we are closer to the matrix that we really know.

Is muscle memory over rated?

Muscle memory, muscle memory, muscle memory. I can't possibly sing the praises of muscle memory enough. Even though my experience with training BJJ is limited thus far, I have found muscle memory to be one of the most important parts of training/practicing anything. I bowl a lot and carry a high average, muscle memory. I played football, muscle memory. Past TSD training, muscle memory. My BJJ so far? I can see the same effect already, in just three weeks of classes.

With that being said ... I am definitely looking forward to being in good enough shape to roll with the more experienced guys at my place. I AM that 280lb white belt, Savage :P

[AJ]

The choice between live rolling and drilling tends to be a fairly natural one for me.

If my moves are getting shut down, then I need to drill up my technique and refine it. Sometimes it's even good to just revisit the technique in drills to keep it fine tuned. Rolling with a sloppy opponent can sometimes cause you to learn bad habits through live rolling. Shaking off those cob webs is important.

If my live rolling sessions are becoming repetitive cyclical sessions (like the movie Ground Hog Day) then I am technically stuck and need to drill some different transitions or refine my old ones.

I view drills like putting the car in the shop. When I need to level up a specific part of my game that's where I go to do it. Live rolling is where I test it, prove it, trouble shoot it.

[Hadaka Jime]

saturday 12-1:30 I go to roll/instruct usually helping people prep for purple belt tests..

i'd say 5-10 people go which for the noon-2 crowd is like 50% but for the gym it's self is like maybe 15%

[SavageKitsune]

I AM that 280lb white belt, Savage :P

And I'd be happy to roll with you as long as you promise to not be a SPAZZY WHITE BELT (tm). IE, don't go too hard and fast, and don't crush all your weight down on a smaller person's ribcage.

:)

[Acenes]

And I'd be happy to roll with you as long as you promise to not be a SPAZZY WHITE BELT (tm). IE, don't go too hard and fast, and don't crush all your weight down on a smaller person's ribcage.

:)

I am no white-belt, but I basically have 4 MAIN heavy settings(and anything inbetween):
1) no weight on opponent
2) a little bit of weight (i.e. the amount appropriate if you are drilling a technique that is new to a new person, or during a SUPER light roll, i.e. you notice there is weight ... somewhere, but you also feel that there could be a lot more weight).
3) heavy
4) you are crushed!!! :)

[Matt]

Muscle memory, muscle memory, muscle memory. I can't possibly sing the praises of muscle memory enough. Even though my experience with training BJJ is limited thus far, I have found muscle memory to be one of the most important parts of training/practicing anything. I bowl a lot and carry a high average, muscle memory. I played football, muscle memory. Past TSD training, muscle memory. My BJJ so far? I can see the same effect already, in just three weeks of classes.

With that being said ... I am definitely looking forward to being in good enough shape to roll with the more experienced guys at my place. I AM that 280lb white belt, Savage :P

mind memory lol..

[eyemyor]

And I'd be happy to roll with you as long as you promise to not be a SPAZZY WHITE BELT (tm). IE, don't go too hard and fast, and don't crush all your weight down on a smaller person's ribcage.

:)

Heh, understandable :P

I think the people that spaz out just need to be shown that rolling is not the time to try and smash your opponent's face. They need to learn that rolling is a great learning opportunity that is best done at less-than-full speed and less-than-full aggression. If I hop on top of an opponent and attempt an armbar, only to have them spin out and put me in a reverse upside-down OMGTHATHURTSOPLATA, how am I going to learn my lesson if I am going full speed?

[Tallsilkyslim]

saturday 12-1:30 I go to roll/instruct usually helping people prep for purple belt tests..

i'd say 5-10 people go which for the noon-2 crowd is like 50% but for the gym it's self is like maybe 15%

Brett!!!!!!:cool:

[SavageKitsune]

a reverse upside-down OMGTHATHURTSOPLATA?

ROFL- I am going to have to steal that term.

[AsianInvasion]

I agree with ari in terms of the old school thinking. Putting in the hours of reps really does make a difference. On paper, that is exactly what I think, but realistically I don't follow that lol. Usually during open mats, I spend time on randori. But the thing is that I spend time on rolling with people with different body types. But of course, you could do the same by doing reps on people bigger or smaller than you. The only times I really do reps during open mat is when I don't understand something, and I actually have a reason to pull someone from his open-mat time to help me with something. I'm not comfortable with pulling someone out of his open-mat time "just because", unless he/she is my friend. But I guess I need to change that since it is okay to be selfish when regarding one's martial education.

[Otto]

There are reps, and there is fighting, then there are more reps and then there is more fighting. Rinse, repeat....forever.
Throw some talking in the middle and the occasional busted body part and you got chop sockey in a nutshell.