Drilling new submissions in a small class

[Tallsilkyslim]

When you learn a new submission, that you know that the rest of your class hasn't seen/drilled the move before, do you think it is best to try the move in a live roll just based off of your memory in hopes that your percentage will be higher on the move because they have never seen it before?

Do you think that if you share it with everyone else and drill it that you will have a lower percentage with it in a live roll against said individuals?

I am just curious.

[cuzz63]

When you learn a new submission, that you know that the rest of your class hasn't seen/drilled the move before, do you think it is best to try the move in a live roll just based off of your memory in hopes that your percentage will be higher on the move because they have never seen it before?

Do you think that if you share it with everyone else and drill it that you will have a lower percentage with it in a live roll against said individuals?

I am just curious.


Depends on the move. If its something that flows well with the game I already play...say a transition to an armlock where maybe I usually go for a choke then I will go for it. If its something new I will drill it alot more or use it rolling with a noob.

[ZeiShou]

I like to randomly try moves on people mid-roll. Sometimes it works out how I want it to; other times it doesn't.

If it's something particularly "risky" (AKA cool) I'll usually get a "Whoa! What was that?" and then I'll show 'em. But I don't just bring people aside and show them stuff ;]

It's my candy; not theirs.

[Ryan]

Preston- Here is an angle you may want to consider...... If you show your team/school your new technique and they learn it and can block it.... this will present an excellent learning tool for you. It will show you how to lock it in against resistance in case you find someone in competition from another school that knows it. It will also give you multiple ways to go for that technique

[Matt]

People are receptive to what they've been shown when they first learn it, if you teach some one a scissor sweep and then try it in a roll 5 minutes later, there going to see the setup and go "haha! not this time mister".. as its still clean in there momory from 5 minutes before.


I am actually confused on the question :) were you asking which is better or what do we do?

[Razors Edge]

Maybe it will be lower percentage. Maybe it won't be. I think whether or not you land the move says more about how good your grappling is compared to theirs, and not how many times they've seen a move.

I think looking to surprise your opponent with something they've "never seen" is counter productive to you.

Try the move if you like it after you've drilled it a bit. If it slides naturally into your game than do it until they stop you. If it doesn't fit in, take a note and maybe dust it off later.

If everyone knows about the move (but not the exact counter) each person will give you a different live reaction in training that will give you better natural reactions to their reactions in training. It's SUPER important.

Remember you're not trying to beat you're training buddies. You're trying to get better jiu jitsu.

[Dannicus]

Remember you're not trying to beat you're training buddies. You're trying to get better jiu jitsu.


While all of what Razor said is true...this is what I take away from it the most...and it's true!

Maybe a happy medium? Is there one of your training partners you just really mesh with? Drill it with him for a while..work out the kinks. Then spring it on the rest of the gym.

[Jack the Tripper]

This question is particularly interesting when theory meets reality.

ex1-It works, they want to learn it - Ever since I first saw the three points of death triangle drill, I've wanted to drill it as a part of standard triangle exercise. But no one at my gym was interested in practicing a weird straight or backwards triangle. Until I tapped a guy about twice my size with the pyramid while he was stacking me. After that, him and a couple other guys who were watching asked me to show them the move.

ex2 -It works, they don't want to learn it - Only me and one other guy at the gym play rubber guard effectively. He's a blue belt, and taps everyone (including me) with RG stuff frequently. When I roll with the other whites, I don't normally use my RG because it's honestly unfair. They can't pass, and they don't know how to defend. When I roll with the blues, I rarely even come close to getting a submission UNLESS it is set up from the RG. In spite of this outstanding evidence, no one else at the gym is interested in learning or training 10thPJJ

ex3- They want to learn it because someone famous did it - When Frank Mir tapped Brock Lesnar, we had a lesson on the setup he used. Also, most of our wrestling stuff seems to come out of Randy Couture 101.

interesting phenomenon. Personally, my ideal training scenario would be where everyone shares all their techniques and we drill them with ascending resistance to determine their effectiveness.

[zaxonortesus]

As per usual, Razors Edge has ptobably the most sound advice. I personally like to drill things with one of about 3 people at first, so I can get the feel, and they can too, I'm not stingy with my moves! Then I'll try it live on the unsuspecting, working it with as much technique as possible, then I'll try it on the guys I drilled it with live as well, they know it's coming, so it's a good litmus test as to the validity of me really using it.

[atcjb9519]

Still being a relative noob, (just hit my 8 month mark) there is a lot of stuff that I pick up, say, online (Thanks Ari) that I am not sure how to teach/explain to anyone. Therefore, I like to try things out in a live roll and see how it works. If it works, I share with anyone who wants to learn. I train with a great bunch of guys over here, so if I tap someone, and it’s something that they haven’t seen before, they ask how I did it. We all share little tidbits of information. I just don’t want to embarrass myself by teaching something the wrong way.

[AJ]

I usually only try new stuff that I have never drilled when the setup naturally presents itself during the live roll. I would never force the setup for a new move though (well, maybe a few times) since it's just out of my muscle memory range and would intentionally lead me off of the tracks.

My game is this automated thing outside of anything I intend, want, or hope for. The most I can do to change it is to drill a move that rationally seems relevant to the positions that I encounter. Sometimes the moves stick and sometimes they don't... sometimes a move I never drilled fits better and works, most of the time it doesn't.

As for hording drilling time in order to keep people from learning how to beat you.. I don't think that's a good idea. It will only keep the general skill level of your gym lower, and subsequently stifle your development. Open the flood gates and make it as hard for yourself as you can. Even in a manipulated scenario a new solid technique might have a honey moon phase (where it works flawlessly) of 3 to 6 weeks anyways.