Doing the Lockdown on a horse

[Tallsilkyslim]

One of my training partners has REALLY wide and REALLY strong legs. When I go to apply the Lockdown on him, he straightens his leg out and it puts a lot of pressure on me, making it very hard to establish my lockdown. Help?

[Adam]

Its a hard one, i have been starring with a guy we named "HOOFS" cause he dead set has legs like no other guy i seen, and he's huge. I found the hard way( popped knee) that Lockdown is useless against him.He just explodes out of it with a strait leg. After one popped knee and a few jarred and stretched ankles ive learnt to scramble to full guard and the arm bar seemed like the only sub i can get him with.

[Matt]

Where abouts does it put pressure?

[Razors Edge]

Switch to a different guard.

[Ari Bolden]

Not all moves will work on all people all the time. If one guard worked 100% of the time, we wouldn't need any others. The reality is that different body types (for both people involved) will produce different results. This is actually the WONDERFUL thing about Jiu Jitsu-the ever changing variables involved in a fight/match.

By building a good tool box and having different tools to use, you gain the ability to switch it up. There are different stages in jiu jitsu learning as well. Time to start mapping out "failed options" and drill counters to counters (ie: lock down doesn't work, move to butterfly, deep half, normal half etc).

Now having said all that, I think we would be remiss if we didn't at least tackle your question. I never liked when an instructor would say things like" in order to get out of a triangle, just don't get in them." That doesn't help the student at all.

As I said, it is totally possible that the move won't on this guy. But the lockdown (as I use it) is more than just laying flat on your back trying to put pressure on the guys leg. There are subtle angles involves. If you need to whip a guy up, you may need to use the big guy version (whip up 2 ver which involves straight arming one of their hips and shrimping out).

As Matt asked, where is the pressure? Its a good place to start,

[Dr Sick]

Generally, the wider the base, the looser the control and the easier to go from half guard to full guard.

[AJ]

Now you know how us little folk feel :)

Just release the lockdown and recapture it after he stops being a masochistic nut job with it (it hurts them too, but less, when they stretch it out like that). I usually release the lockdown, go for something else (guard recapture is a safe move) and if that gets blocked grab the lockdown again.

Eventually they stop it.

[Razors Edge]

Now you know how us little folk feel :)

Just release the lockdown and recapture it after he stops being a masochistic nut job with it (it hurts them too, but less, when they stretch it out like that).



You sure? A guy can easily kick his leg free if he has the approrpriate technique and and you feel no pain. It's as satisfying as opening a jar of peanut butter.

Something that people having problems should keep in mind.

A guy can't just kick his leg free with no counter pressure at all. If he does he would drag your entire body with him kind of like when kids cling to their fathers legs playfully as he tries to walk.

If a guy is kicking his leg free it is because he is somehow (maybe with his hand, elbow or hip) trapping your hip. If you keep your hip free than you dont have to worry about the kick out, but that means you need an understanding of where to put your arms and how to angle out.

The thing is that when you use the lockdown, in order to set it out you move into the worst possible angle for halfguard movement.

You are trapping your self. The antidote to getting a deeper lockdown is just another poison.

That's why I say use a different guard. If someone on top is sloppy with their feet and you can take the lockdown, you might as well, but there is no sense in reaching for a move if it is just going to put you in a worse position. The halfguard kimura works the same way. In order to be succesful with it you have to keep your back flat. If you chase it you get stuck underneath half.

If a guy has really fat strong legs than he is automatically giving you space to insert a lever. Switch to half butterfly or start working to take his back.

[Tallsilkyslim]

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I have been waiting for tonight so that I could try out some of the advice if the scenario were to occur, however I don't get to grapple horse legs until later but I got antsy. :)

I did train last night, but he only comes Thursdays.

Thanks for all the input folks..

[AJ]

You sure? A guy can easily kick his leg free if he has the approrpriate technique and and you feel no pain. It's as satisfying as opening a jar of peanut butter.


Haha.. well now I'm not.

I see what you are saying though. Yeah, I did just presume that they were power yanking their leg and the mechanics of what they were doing didn't occur to me.

I'll isolate the situation so I can understand it firsthand, thanks for the heads up.

[Ari Bolden]

Story time.

I am in Calgary at the moment. I did a seminar here today and focused on the lock down and the transitions from there. I showed ways to break the lock down as well.

In the morning, I did a seminar with a man named Ari Taub. Ari was on the Beijing 2008 Canadian Olympic team. He is 6'4'' 278lbs. I can't tell you how much I learned in that. Then, Ari did my 10th Planet seminar.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/archives/article703450.ece

The man was open minded and soaked everything in . In the true sense of the word, he IS a martial artist. He runs the HArd Knocks Fighting Championships out here and has been doing jiu jitsu for the past 3 years to add to his game.

At 40, he is an absolute MONSTER in ever sense of the word. He HAS horse legs (tree trunks). But I could use the lockdown on him. Its about hip control (a notion he covered over and over again in the morning.

It is almost impossible to describe the subtleties of somethings. Jiu Jitsu a kinetic art that best works when one person shows and does it on another. To say that one thing is 'easy as this' is a disservice to the thousands of body types you will encounter. The level of people you are doing it on. It is very possible that your move will work on many people. But not all moves work on all people all the time. You're gonna run into a road block (either with a body type that shuts down a particular move or a person who is so good at a technique that your pay of stopping it gets shut down)

Sorry for the ramble. Still on a high from the days events. So fun....its nuts.

[michaelwbray]

Make sure you have your underhook, and scoot out to the side a bit more and apply the lock down from there. Almost at about 140 degrees instead of 180 degrees if that makes sense? (i.e. not face to face with him on your back (You really don't want to be flat on your back ever in half guard but in reality we are all going to end up there).